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Kamala supporters/ democrats: why do you think you've lost?

321 replies

TERFCat · 06/11/2024 09:56

From reading Twitter, the rhetoric on the left seems to be that they've lost because Trump voters are stupid, racist, sexist etc etc.

Personally, I think that the conversation needs far more nuance than name calling.

I'm left wing but can't vote for anyone who will allow men into women's safe spaces or will sterilize autistic/ gay children. If this makes me "thick" or "fascist", then so be it, but those names won't change my vote.

OP posts:
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14
izimbra · 06/11/2024 17:17

"There should also be no males in female sport, again they have their own teams.
Let's hope Kemi, Trump, Vance & the Republicans ban this, they can lobby for gender neutral spaces & sports teams if they don't want to use the ones aligned to their biological birth sex."

How do you suggest we police women's toilets so as to make sure that the 0.1% of the population that's trans women don't use them?

Maybe we could get a gender critical army of volunteers to police every single toilet in the UK to challenge any masculine looking person - they could be forced to drop their pants for a genital inspection, or held in a citizens arrest until the police come.

Terfandsurf · 06/11/2024 18:06

RobinEllacotStrike · 06/11/2024 13:16

its highlighted in the USA today, but leftwing political parties around the world are struggling to understand the impact of their choices to go all in on imposing gender ideology upon their citizens. Gender ideolodgy very clearly harms women, children and homosexuals.

when you lie about fundamentals, like pretending you can't tell the difference between a man & woman, or that differences are unimportant, and sex isn't a binary that is important and immutable, you will not be believed about anything by huge swathes of the population.

If you try and tell people 1+1=3, and 1+1=2 is a lie, everything else you say is tainted. And what the democrats have done with gender is exactly this. People have turned away.

Humans can't change sex. This is a truth which the Democrats have declared inconvenient amd a lie.

Democrats have beclowned themselves so badly they have created an open goal for the Orange Lunatic. Trump will have devotees I'm sure, but there are lots of ordinary Americans who would have voted democrat that didn't because the trust levels are so low. So low, they prefer Trump.

I don't feel like Trump won ths election - the Democrats lost badly & bigly. They spectaculary fucked up and they are totally in denial of all the ways they messed this up.

The only reason this didn't have a similar effect in UK with Labour winning in the UK, is the Tories had been in for so long, thought Brexit, Covid and all the finanicial stuff following those events, that it would have been almost impossible for them to win again. But unless this Labour Govt comes out strongly with sensible sex based rights protections and takes the gender bollocks out of NHS, Govt etc, they will feel this effect at the next election and lose.

I am/was on the left - I don't recognise it anymore. Its seems everyone is brainwashed and lying, and then wondering why they aren't trusted by voters.

Absolutely spot on 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Noshowlomo · 06/11/2024 18:06

RobinEllacotStrike · 06/11/2024 13:16

its highlighted in the USA today, but leftwing political parties around the world are struggling to understand the impact of their choices to go all in on imposing gender ideology upon their citizens. Gender ideolodgy very clearly harms women, children and homosexuals.

when you lie about fundamentals, like pretending you can't tell the difference between a man & woman, or that differences are unimportant, and sex isn't a binary that is important and immutable, you will not be believed about anything by huge swathes of the population.

If you try and tell people 1+1=3, and 1+1=2 is a lie, everything else you say is tainted. And what the democrats have done with gender is exactly this. People have turned away.

Humans can't change sex. This is a truth which the Democrats have declared inconvenient amd a lie.

Democrats have beclowned themselves so badly they have created an open goal for the Orange Lunatic. Trump will have devotees I'm sure, but there are lots of ordinary Americans who would have voted democrat that didn't because the trust levels are so low. So low, they prefer Trump.

I don't feel like Trump won ths election - the Democrats lost badly & bigly. They spectaculary fucked up and they are totally in denial of all the ways they messed this up.

The only reason this didn't have a similar effect in UK with Labour winning in the UK, is the Tories had been in for so long, thought Brexit, Covid and all the finanicial stuff following those events, that it would have been almost impossible for them to win again. But unless this Labour Govt comes out strongly with sensible sex based rights protections and takes the gender bollocks out of NHS, Govt etc, they will feel this effect at the next election and lose.

I am/was on the left - I don't recognise it anymore. Its seems everyone is brainwashed and lying, and then wondering why they aren't trusted by voters.

Spot on. I feel exactly the same as you

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LlynTegid · 06/11/2024 18:07

I think economic factors are a major factor.

Monday55 · 06/11/2024 18:18

People can't separate someone's character from their ability to do their job.

Yes, someone can be a serial killer, but that doesn't stop them from being the top surgeon in their field.

Kamala was a nice character blah blah, but she's not up to the job!!

TheFreaksShallInheritTheEarth · 06/11/2024 19:49

Pumpkinspawn · 06/11/2024 16:46

Percieved threat of a man in the women's loo? There should be no males in females loos, they have their own facilities.
There should also be no males in female sport, again they have their own teams.
Lets hope Kemi, Trump, Vance & the Republicans ban this, they can lobby for gender neutral spaces & sports teams if they don't want to use the ones aligned to their biological birth sex.

FFS yes I agree about men in women's loos and sports.

What I disagreed with was that women's interests are better looked after by a misogynist, convicted sex offender and the erosion of women's bodily autonomy and healthcare (forced childbirth, anyone?) that will result from this huge swing to the right, than by the Democrats with their idiotic stance on gender.

TheFreaksShallInheritTheEarth · 06/11/2024 19:51

Kamala was a nice character blah blah, but she's not up to the job!!

And Trump is???Confused

Perfect28 · 06/11/2024 20:06

Sexism and racism.

GettingStuffed · 06/11/2024 20:12

In addition to the reasons above is that she has a decent vocabulary and a lot of people couldn't understand her ( taken from a website with a lot of Americans)

Perfect28 · 06/11/2024 20:16

@GettingStuffed that's so depressingly true.

User37482 · 06/11/2024 20:39

I think a chunk of people voted for what they thought would be least bad.
Lets be honest both candidates were shit, even the dems thought kamala was shit for ages.

I think it’s down to the economy and the lefts pursuit of progressive policies. Probably is as simple as that.

GreenSedan · 06/11/2024 21:04

TheFreaksShallInheritTheEarth · 06/11/2024 19:51

Kamala was a nice character blah blah, but she's not up to the job!!

And Trump is???Confused

And she still couldnt beat him. That's the point.

FOJN · 06/11/2024 21:19

Perfect28 · 06/11/2024 20:06

Sexism and racism.

Its possible but it doesn't explain why she surged ahead of Trump in the polls when she became the democratic nominee, her sex and skin colour haven't changed since then.

I think it's much more likely that many voters heaved a sigh of relief when they were presented with an alternative to Biden and Trump and then Kamala failed to capitalise on that. People wanted change and she said she wouldn't do anything differently to Biden.

StaunchMomma · 06/11/2024 21:23

TheFlis · 06/11/2024 13:16

Exactly @StaunchMomma

Absolutely!

SpidersAreShitheads · 06/11/2024 21:46

izimbra · 06/11/2024 17:17

"There should also be no males in female sport, again they have their own teams.
Let's hope Kemi, Trump, Vance & the Republicans ban this, they can lobby for gender neutral spaces & sports teams if they don't want to use the ones aligned to their biological birth sex."

How do you suggest we police women's toilets so as to make sure that the 0.1% of the population that's trans women don't use them?

Maybe we could get a gender critical army of volunteers to police every single toilet in the UK to challenge any masculine looking person - they could be forced to drop their pants for a genital inspection, or held in a citizens arrest until the police come.

Or maybe biological men could just stay out of women's spaces? Men claiming a trans identity have already attacked women in spaces that were supposed to be single sex. Prisons, hospital wards, toilets. How many women have to be attacked before we say "enough"? Personally, I think one woman attacked is one woman too many.

There's a very good reason we have single sex spaces and that's to protect women. Either we all decide that we don't need single sex spaces after all - or we keep all biological males out, however they may identify.

Also worth mentioning that prison data suggests there's a higher incidence of sexual assault committed by men with a trans identity than the general male population. They're not a benevolent 0.1% who "just want to pee". There are plenty who have a nefarious purpose.

Ironically, the trans movement has made it harder for women who are gender non-conforming because it pushes regressive sexual stereotypes. Gender critical women don't want to push traditional gender stereotypes - that's the TRAs. We know that women come in all shapes and sizes, and that no matter how you dress or look, a woman is still a woman. It's the trans movement that insists what you wear, the make-up you have on, your hairstyle etc is what makes you a woman. We're the ones saying that's not the case.

I vote on the political left and I'm absolutely sick of no one speaking up for women's rights, other than right-wing parties that I share no other values with.

LiceoDolce · 06/11/2024 22:06

My thoughts on why the Dems lost.

I don't think it was a few silly policies. Let's face it some of Trump's policies are pretty daft too.

In no particular order:

Right wing dominance of social media sources where people are getting their news from. The spreading of false information on these platforms about government policies, immigration and Kamala.

Trump whipping people into a frenzy of hate and fear against immigrants. The fear of other is some kind of fundamental human flaw and Trump is good at this. I have a book about dictators and nearly all of them do this with some out group on their way to power.

Although the economy is strong there is massive inequality in the US. That's why people are so susceptible to Trump's attempts to blame everything on immigrants. Despite being a rich country there are too many poor people. The dems didn't manage to articulate a plan on how to fix it though Kamala started to try. It's almost like they needed to be more left wing (if they aren't going down the facist route like Trump) and promise increases in the minimum wage or big changes that could lift living standards.

Sexism and racism among the American public.

Biden hanging on too long and not giving time for a contest in which leading Dems could set out their vision. Biden letting everything drift as he isn't really up to the job any more.

I do think though despite the above that those who have voted for Trump have been irresponsible. He is clearly of bad character. It's obvious from everything he says and has done. He isn't hiding it.

izimbra · 06/11/2024 23:59

SpidersAreShitheads · 06/11/2024 21:46

Or maybe biological men could just stay out of women's spaces? Men claiming a trans identity have already attacked women in spaces that were supposed to be single sex. Prisons, hospital wards, toilets. How many women have to be attacked before we say "enough"? Personally, I think one woman attacked is one woman too many.

There's a very good reason we have single sex spaces and that's to protect women. Either we all decide that we don't need single sex spaces after all - or we keep all biological males out, however they may identify.

Also worth mentioning that prison data suggests there's a higher incidence of sexual assault committed by men with a trans identity than the general male population. They're not a benevolent 0.1% who "just want to pee". There are plenty who have a nefarious purpose.

Ironically, the trans movement has made it harder for women who are gender non-conforming because it pushes regressive sexual stereotypes. Gender critical women don't want to push traditional gender stereotypes - that's the TRAs. We know that women come in all shapes and sizes, and that no matter how you dress or look, a woman is still a woman. It's the trans movement that insists what you wear, the make-up you have on, your hairstyle etc is what makes you a woman. We're the ones saying that's not the case.

I vote on the political left and I'm absolutely sick of no one speaking up for women's rights, other than right-wing parties that I share no other values with.

"Or maybe biological men could just stay out of women's spaces?"

Except transwomen won't stay out of women's spaces because they identify as women, no matter how much you disagree with this and these are the spaces in which they feel safest - particularly as they're a highly vulnerable group.

So how do you suggest they be stopped from using the spaces they feel are safe and appropriate for them? Would you stop a masculine looking woman entering a toilet you were in and demand proof that she was female? Do you expect other people to do this?

izimbra · 07/11/2024 00:01

LiceoDolce · 06/11/2024 22:06

My thoughts on why the Dems lost.

I don't think it was a few silly policies. Let's face it some of Trump's policies are pretty daft too.

In no particular order:

Right wing dominance of social media sources where people are getting their news from. The spreading of false information on these platforms about government policies, immigration and Kamala.

Trump whipping people into a frenzy of hate and fear against immigrants. The fear of other is some kind of fundamental human flaw and Trump is good at this. I have a book about dictators and nearly all of them do this with some out group on their way to power.

Although the economy is strong there is massive inequality in the US. That's why people are so susceptible to Trump's attempts to blame everything on immigrants. Despite being a rich country there are too many poor people. The dems didn't manage to articulate a plan on how to fix it though Kamala started to try. It's almost like they needed to be more left wing (if they aren't going down the facist route like Trump) and promise increases in the minimum wage or big changes that could lift living standards.

Sexism and racism among the American public.

Biden hanging on too long and not giving time for a contest in which leading Dems could set out their vision. Biden letting everything drift as he isn't really up to the job any more.

I do think though despite the above that those who have voted for Trump have been irresponsible. He is clearly of bad character. It's obvious from everything he says and has done. He isn't hiding it.

"Biden letting everything drift as he isn't really up to the job any more."

Biden's record in office is great. He'll go down in history as a highly effective president, no matter how much the Trump camp wants to spin it. He's passed some great legislation and is leaving the economy in better shape than Trump did.

BadLad · 07/11/2024 02:22

If swing voters are feeling better off now than they did at the time of the last election, they will probably vote for the status quo. If they are feeling worse off, they will probably vote for a change.

Inflation is high and is making people feel as if they are in a worse position than four years ago, so it isn't surprising that they didn't turn out in droves to vote for an uncharismatic candidate from the current administration.

Cnon · 07/11/2024 05:09

As James Carville said in 1992, The Economy Stupid!

Moulook31 · 07/11/2024 06:01

Westfacing · 06/11/2024 10:37

I'm not a Kamala supporter.

I hope it turns out that the Democrats lost Pennsylvania because of Gaza - Trump is loathsome but Biden and Harris have been in charge during the US-funded bloodshed.

Well said.

SpidersAreShitheads · 07/11/2024 06:21

izimbra · 06/11/2024 23:59

"Or maybe biological men could just stay out of women's spaces?"

Except transwomen won't stay out of women's spaces because they identify as women, no matter how much you disagree with this and these are the spaces in which they feel safest - particularly as they're a highly vulnerable group.

So how do you suggest they be stopped from using the spaces they feel are safe and appropriate for them? Would you stop a masculine looking woman entering a toilet you were in and demand proof that she was female? Do you expect other people to do this?

It doesn't matter how they identify and it doesn't matter how they feel. Sometimes you can't have everything you want, just because it's your preference.

Invading another person's space because you want it, even when that person tells you that it makes them uncomfortable is the absolute height of self-entitlement.

And this is the crux of the issue - men are used to getting what they want. It's a patriarchal society. We have single sex spaces set up because we recognise that the female body is more vulnerable and because unfortunately, some men tend to be a bit rapey. But men aren't good at hearing the word "no".

What's happened is that sex and gender have become conflated. It's the biological sex of the individual that matters when assessing risk. A male-bodied individual - statistically - is more likely to commit sexual assault. And that statistical probability actually increases when that male-bodied person has a trans identity.

Not all trans identifying men are sexual deviants. But some are. And inconveniently, they don't wear signs. Plus, it's not just a matter of safety. Women who have previously been subject to male violence or sexual assault don't feel comfortable sharing their single sex spaces with male-bodied individuals. Women of certain religions can't share changing rooms or toilets with male-bodied individuals.

By advocating for male-bodied individuals to use women's single sex spaces, you are prioritising the preferences of men over the safety, well-being, and comfort of women. Do women's feelings and safety not count for anything?!

Also, trans individuals are not a highly vulnerable group. They may feel awkward using men's facilities but there are virtually no instances of assault. Unlike women who are regularly attacked by men, including those with trans identities.

I sympathise with trans identifying men actually, although it might not sound like it. I can imagine it's difficult - but that doesn't mean they have to get their own way. And many refuse to use a third space even when it's available - they INSIST on using women's facilities, which is a huge red flag.

I've already explained that gender critical women aren't the ones who believe in regressive stereotypes. We don't have a problem with "masculine looking women" because "woman" isn't a style.

Male bodies need to be told they have to stay out of women's spaces - and that would make everyone a lot more relaxed than they are right now. In the vast majority of cases, it's fairly obvious which individuals are male - less so in photos, but in person, there are clues that tend to give them away.

I don't think we need checks and clearly that would be really difficult to enforce. But what I think we do need is a very loud and clear message from government that single sex spaces correlate to biological sex, and that gender identity is irrelevant. Currently women have to ensure naked male bodies in their spaces - spas, changing rooms, toilets - we don't need to do an inspection. These individuals seem very happy to strut around with their bodies on clear display - which very much suggests a fetish basis. Women are not a shield from male violence and our spaces are not up for grabs.

I'm sure trans women do feel safer in our spaces, but the point is that many women aren't safer when we have to share them with male bodies, and actually our safety matters too,

LoudSnoringDog · 07/11/2024 06:35

It's not that Harris lost, the Democrats lost for allowing Biden to wander around like a dementia patient for far too long

SALaw · 07/11/2024 06:37

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 06/11/2024 10:47

I'm left wing but can't vote for anyone who will allow men into women's safe spaces or will sterilize autistic/ gay children.

Could you vote for a rapist that doesn't think women should have control over their own bodies?

Sorry, but people cannot make the "women should be in control of their own bodies" argument as a reason to support Harris when she strongly advocates for women being made to turn a blind eye to having to share those bodies with men in changing rooms and toilets. So many US public toilets have huge gaps in the doors and so barely private. No way I want a man seeing me in there. The left gifted the election to a power crazed, egotistical, misogynistic, dangerous man because of their tone deafness on such issues.

XChrome · 07/11/2024 06:52

LiceoDolce · 06/11/2024 22:06

My thoughts on why the Dems lost.

I don't think it was a few silly policies. Let's face it some of Trump's policies are pretty daft too.

In no particular order:

Right wing dominance of social media sources where people are getting their news from. The spreading of false information on these platforms about government policies, immigration and Kamala.

Trump whipping people into a frenzy of hate and fear against immigrants. The fear of other is some kind of fundamental human flaw and Trump is good at this. I have a book about dictators and nearly all of them do this with some out group on their way to power.

Although the economy is strong there is massive inequality in the US. That's why people are so susceptible to Trump's attempts to blame everything on immigrants. Despite being a rich country there are too many poor people. The dems didn't manage to articulate a plan on how to fix it though Kamala started to try. It's almost like they needed to be more left wing (if they aren't going down the facist route like Trump) and promise increases in the minimum wage or big changes that could lift living standards.

Sexism and racism among the American public.

Biden hanging on too long and not giving time for a contest in which leading Dems could set out their vision. Biden letting everything drift as he isn't really up to the job any more.

I do think though despite the above that those who have voted for Trump have been irresponsible. He is clearly of bad character. It's obvious from everything he says and has done. He isn't hiding it.

Spot on.
I think many posters here don't understand that the trans issue is not nearly as big in the US as it is in the UK and that racism and resentment/fear of immigrants is a baked in part of a large percentage of Americans. The GOP has capitalized on this and it has worked.