Kamala supporters/ democrats: why do you think you've lost?

[TERFCat]

From reading Twitter, the rhetoric on the left seems to be that they've lost because Trump voters are stupid, racist, sexist etc etc.

Personally, I think that the conversation needs far more nuance than name calling.

I'm left wing but can't vote for anyone who will allow men into women's safe spaces or will sterilize autistic/ gay children. If this makes me "thick" or "fascist", then so be it, but those names won't change my vote.

I think it's quite funny at this point that people are insisting that this had nothing to do with the election result despite the fact that there are democrats stating that it clearly did.

If you want to win elections and hearts and minds you ignore this at your peril!

As a woman this doesn't bother me at all.

Transition must be a hard thing to go through, especially when someone is making themselves the target of people like you - your hatred and contempt.

I applaud the bravery of transgender people. Imagine being part of a group who the incoming administration has targeted millions of dollars on vilifying and drumming up hatred and fear against?

Imagine knowing that there are GC's whose whole identity is grounded in hating and objecting to your life choices. Who congregate online for hours and hours to discuss how vile you are and how much they object to your existence. Who will literally vote for a fascist if it means being able to legally persecute transwomen?

And other women do want single sex spaces or sports

There's a lot of internet time including abuse and other more physical methods dedicated to making sure women are limited in saying this

The current set up creates a clash, and gender dysphoria within society could be dealt with in a better way, not just without the views of women who are also a key part

As a woman this doesn't bother me at all.

You don't get to give my daughter's rights and my mother's rights away to men.

Because she isn’t a man. Plus, lots of people were pissed off with Biden hanging on for so long.

Indeed. For a woman to win the presidency, she would have to be exceptional.

And Harris isn't exceptional. For example, some of her supposed beliefs appear batshit now that the ramifications of them are playing out in real life, e.g. in schools and sports. That makes voters think, 'huh?' rather than 'yes!'

That plus Biden debacle = question of trustworthiness.

@izimbra you are free to your beliefs & delusions. So are the rest of us.

I know your beliefs are ridiculous and founded on wishful thinking and lies.

You can say I'm a bigot/terf/whatever. I really don't care - and there are more and more people who think like me and many others on this thread. They have always been there but they might not have known what was going on due to the media capture and censorship of the last few years, or they have been intimadated into silence our of fear of you and your lovely chums.

Your name calling & threats don't work any more. Sorry not sorry.

While Trump doing a 2nd term is an abomination for many reasons, that this might see off the gender nonsense and wake the Democrats us to their current cult like mass trance is a wonderful thing and much needed.

Lets hope in the next 4 years the Dems sort themselves out, lose the authoritiarian tendancies, lose all the gender bollocks and making policy on harmful gender stereotypes nonsense, and focus on winning policies again.

Lets hope in the next 4 years the Dems sort themselves out, lose the authoritiarian tendancies, lose all the gender bollocks and making policy on harmful gender stereotypes nonsense, and focus on winning policies again

I find it fascinating that, in spite of clear evidence to the contrary, we have TRAs and Democrats claiming that women's rights weren't an issue in this election.

https://blueprint2024.com/polling/why-trump-reasons-11-8/

The results paint a clear picture: Democrats were punished for inflation, misalignment on immigration and cultural issues, and Biden. The top three reasons not to vote for Harris were:

1. “Inflation was too high under the Biden-Harris Administration” (+24)
2. “Too many immigrants illegally crossed the border under the Biden-Harris Administration” (+23)
3. “Kamala Harris is focused more on cultural issues like transgender issues rather than helping the middle class” (+17).

Until the Democrats and the TRAs accept that most people don't believe that men who claim a transgender identity should have additional rights and that women's sport matters to women and girls, and that it's pretty fucking offensive that Harris sent a letter congratulating a male for 365 days of 'living authentically as a woman' when it's obvious that women can't achieve that accolade because they weren't born male.

@Izimbra as @RobinEllacotStrike says I don't care if you think I'm obsessed or a bigot.

Males who choose to lives their lives in a way which harms women and girls through imposing themselves on women's single sex spaces and sports don't deserve my concern or respect. They know the harm they are causing, they know they have made themselves the most privileged set of humans on the planet and they don't care.

They don't want to acknowledge that this has impacted the election they want to make out it's all to do with women being prejudiced. There is a reason for that. If they lose the support of the Democrats too, in the sense that the Democrats stop putting their identity beliefs above the rights of women and girls, then they might lose their privileged position. Can't be having that can we?

As far as i can see, they lost primarily because of the economy, immigration & who they were up against... was trans the deciding factor in such a comprehensive defeat?

When you have committed pro choice women supporting Trump, there is little you can do to change minds.

As one leading Republican commentator admitted "Had Harris been facing a more normal candidate, the result may have been totally different"

Whether the Democrats win or not in 4 years time will depend on how Trump does on the economy, border security & deportations

@RobinEllacotStrike

"that this might see off the gender nonsense"

What does that mean?

What do you want to happen?

Other than banning transgender women from sport, and banning transgender women from female spaces. And what material impact would banning transgender women from using female spaces have, given the obvious impossibility of enforcing this in any meaningful way.

What future do you see in regard to this issue and what legislation are you hoping for?

Transgender healthcare banned? Transgender people drummed out of the workplace and education?

Other than banning transgender women from sport, and banning transgender women from female spaces. And what material impact would banning transgender women from using female spaces have, given the obvious impossibility of enforcing this in any meaningful way.

Keeping sport single sex would not be banning trans identifying males from sport. They are able to compete as males, just like any other male. That would be fair.

Banning trans identifying males from female single sex spaces is essential for fairness and safety for women. The social code has always been that men/ males stay out. Any male who can't respect the needs of women to safety and privacy where it is the most important is a predatory male, no matter what his gender identity is. If males who identify as trans want to advocate for third spaces then they are, of course, free to do so.

In housing and employment sex (mostly with the exception of roles which are sex specific) isn't important so these areas of life should not be impacted by restoring fairness for women.

It is very easy to regain fairness to women. Some males might be pissed off that they've had 'privileges' removed but that's really not my concern.

there you go with more ridiculous inflammatory rhetoric.

No one is seeing to ban transwomens from sport - they are freee to play sport in their own sex class like everyone else.

Transwomen aren't women and never will be. We aren't seeking to exclude them from female spaces because they are trans - but because they are men. Like all men they need to stay out of womens spaces. If you allow men in womens spaces it becomes a mixed sex space and the womans space no longer exisits.
Women then start to self exclude from these spaces - they are actually drummed out of public life, but quietly and invisibly.

As for the future - we have some spaces segragated by sex for good reason. Those reasons haven't changed.

I would like more emphasis put on making MENS spaces safer for all men including gender non conforming men. This isn't a job for me as a feminist, but why don't you and the trans lobby focus on this rather than harrassing women and girls?

Transgender people can access healthcare the same as the rest of us.

All healthcare should be evidence led - the manipulation and lies spread by WPATH the last few years are seen now. There is rapidly diminishing evidence for cross sex hormomes and "gender affirming surgeries" undertaken by rogue suegeons and manipulated medics to mutilate the bodies of otherwise healthy people, setting them on a lifelong path of medicalisation. In the future I'd like to see all hormone/surgical "affirmations" stopped but with lots more mental health support.

Transpeople can be in the workplace, in education - where ever they want to be. And indeed they are. No one cares and they have just as many rights as everyone else. But they haven't changed sex and never will. Men have no extra rights to access womens spaces because they claim special ladyfeels.

Who do you think you are actually helping trying to enfore all the lies of your cult onto us? Do you realise the harm you are causing people who are often quite vulnerable. You are so keen to berate us for the "harm" our disbelief in your cult causes transpeople, and yet you seeming completely lack awareness of how damaging it is to lie to people. Telling vulnerable people that disagreement/non cult compliance means we hate them, want them dead, want them to disappear etc. is reckless and irresponsbile. Not to mention none of that is true.

TRA's really are the Trumps of the modern "social justice movements".

All bluster, lies, outrageous claims and more lies.

@RobinEllacotStrike it's a really good point that the persistence of TRAs is actually harming trans people.

s

Just dropping a link to this excellent film here in case someone on this thread is yet to watch it.

White

male

@RobinEllacotStrike

"In the future I'd like to see all hormone/surgical "affirmations" stopped but with lots more mental health support."

I appreciate you feel very strongly that you know what's best for people with persistent gender dysphoria, and you know more about their needs than they do. I'm wondering where this confidence comes from?

Have you spoken to a lot of transgender adults about their feelings and experiences of medical transitioning?

Is this an area in which you have clinical expertise and experience or formal education?

My understanding is that the majority of the evidence doesn't point to high levels of regret around gender affirming surgery or treatment. By and large less than cosmetic surgery where rates of regret are about 25% - I'm guessing you don't want cosmetic surgery to be unavailable? What about abortion? Or sterilisation for cis-gender women or men?

My understanding is that the majority of the evidence doesn't point to high levels of regret around gender affirming surgery or treatment.

Where does this "understanding" of yours come from?
Do you realise that there is very little follow up data on those who have had these surgeries?
Have you read the Cass review?
Have you read the WPATH files?

persistant gender dysphoria is a mental condition - The response to a mental condition is not to irrevocably mutilate someone's body via high risk procedures that have a high chance that many future medical operations will be required to repair and limit ongoing harm suffered by the person during these procedures?

Do you reaslise that surgeons aren't actually creating penises for women and vaginas for men? If you are brave enough you can google pictures of the end results of "gender affirming surgeries" and come back and tell me what a fan you are of them.

Do you realise that only a tiny percentage of men claiming a trans identity say they are suffering from gender dysphoria?

I'm not a big fan of elective cosmetic surgery but adults can do what they want.
I would prefer adults to be at least 25 before they can elect to have any kind of surgical gentital mutilation.
And it should be privately funded - not on the NHS.

you are being hugely transphobic if you think "persistent gender dysphoria" is a prerequisit to being trans.

"Studies that claim low regret commonly suffer from the following methodological limitations, which render the conclusions of “very low regret” at a critical risk of bias:"
https://segm.org/regret-detransition-rate-unknown

"Where does this "understanding" of yours come from?
Do you realise that there is very little follow up data on those who have had these surgeries?"

If as you say 'there is very little follow up data on those who have had these surgeries, on what are you basing your conviction that nobody should be having them?

Do you know any transgender adults?

"The Society For Evidence-Based Gender Medicine (SEGM) is a non-profit organization that is known for its opposition to gender-affirming care for transgender youth and for engaging in political lobbying"

I know you're deeply engaged with the work of anti-transgender pressure groups and lobbies but you'll understand that people who don't share your zealotry on this issue may not feel like these are reliable sources of information?

Izimbra on another thread you have admitted that you believe that biological sex is immutable.

So you are literally on here arguing for women to lose sports and rights on the basis of intangible gender beliefs of men.

And that bodies should be medical altered to make them look like those intangible gender beliefs.

There is no evidence.

Well for starters ....

• Cass Review
• WPATH files - out of the horses mouth. The WPATH trans verified doctors admit themselves most of the "treatment" they are performing on vulnerable people are ineffective, dangerous, leat to complications and don't do what they tell people they are going to do.
• https://segm.org/regret-detransition-rate-unknown

How is crafting a flesh tube out of a forearm, or creating a surgical hole in a mans groin that he needs to dilate for the rest of his life, "medical care"?

Why are your standards for medial treatment offered to trans people so much lower than for the rest of the population?

Have you listened to any detransitioners?

gosh what eveil bastards - not wants children and youth to undergo irreversible harmful medial procedures.

If you read the WPATH files - straight from the mouths of your cult members - you will see the doctors talking about how children & teens are unable to give informed consent to these procudures, and the doctors know this all to well, but do it anyway.

"SEGM is free from political, ideological, religious, or financial influences."

Oh I can see why you wouldnt like them @izimbra