Kamala supporters/ democrats: why do you think you've lost?

[TERFCat]

From reading Twitter, the rhetoric on the left seems to be that they've lost because Trump voters are stupid, racist, sexist etc etc.

Personally, I think that the conversation needs far more nuance than name calling.

I'm left wing but can't vote for anyone who will allow men into women's safe spaces or will sterilize autistic/ gay children. If this makes me "thick" or "fascist", then so be it, but those names won't change my vote.

Clearly you think a woman can have a penis

It was said by Alister Campbell earlier today politicians/people who are interested in politics need to remember that the vast majority of people have little interest in politics and policy

its very true and this is what bold big statements have such an impact

It’s magical thinking, nostalgia and a hope that there are easy answers to complex problems.
Democrats didn’t listen hard enough to the left of the Republican Party ie those Rep inclined voters who could be won over. Nor tell a concrete enough story to the undecided. Instead of using the increasingly meaningless fascist and hard to grasp ‘threat to democracy’ they could have unpicked reasons why Trump, Musk, Vance et al were also part of an elite and would unpick workers’ rights.
They had a misunderstanding that Latino voters stood in solidarity with new arrivals whereas they actually wanted to protect their status and sod everyone else.
But essentially, big tent solidarity is a far harder sell than protect me and mine self-interest

Do they?

Biden wanted to stand in 2016 and never forgave the Obamas for throwing their support behind Hillary Clinton. When it became clear that Biden would never win against Trump earlier this year, Obama started making moves behind the scenes to pressure him into standing down and for the Democrats to hold primaries where he (Obama) would be supporting Mark Kelly. Unfortunately, Obama was thwarted by Harris announcing her candidacy straight away and Biden immediately endorsing her. The media whipped up Harris's momentum, Biden got to stick it to Obama and the Democrats were stuck with a hopeless candidate. This is why there was a pointed gap before the Obamas supported Harris; they were still investigating the viability of someone else challenging her.

This. Particularly rich white men.

I'm beginning to think he's a narcissist or just a self regarding prick. Look at the outcome of his selfishness.

i don't think it's as simple as that.
I am left wing. Very. Have been for years. Flirted with membership of the communist party left wing. (I didn't but it was tempting for a while)

I do not believe that a man can have a vagina or that a woman can have a penis. I am gender critical in that i am a 2nd wave feminist. Gender is a completely made up social construct designed to put women (adult human females) firmly in their box. And it can ruin men's lives because stereotypically men and boys don't cry or express feelings (etc etc etc)

So believe me when i say: I would never have voted for trump (in the US) or the tories (in the UK) or the AfD (I get to vote in 2 places, in Germany). I would rather have all the other things that come with a (nominally in the case of democrats and labour) left wing government, than the ONE thing a right wing government would offer me (women's spaces). I would hate having to keep campaigning and keep pushing on that one thing, but i am doing it. Because EVERYTHING matters.

it also makes me wonder about all the Obama/Biden memes during their time in the white house.

I've seen the argument on The Rest Is Politics, the BBC News and Sky News that most ordinary people don't pay much attention to politics and I think it is another example of the political pundit class being extremely patronising and totally out-of-touch in what is meant to be their specialist area. People might not listen to their podcast or read The Economist and The New Statesman but they know when they can't afford to buy food in the supermarket, they know when the area they live in is crime-ridden, they know when there's a tent city outside their local shops, they know when their job is being outsourced.

I really despise Trump but the media and political classes have yet to learn that finding different ways to label his supporters as stupid is counter-productive.

This. I think it's ridiculous that people have voted for trump based on one single issue and haven't looked a the fuller picture and what else they are voting for. You're never going to agree with absolutely every policy of a party.

Hilary won the popular vote, so I'm not sure that's strictly true.

@izimbra I think you need to pay less attention to the 'social research' and more attention to the actual facts. Trump is on track to win the popular vote - if you want to believe that half of all American voters are racist, fascist misogynists (including the many people of colour and women that voted for him) or fundamentalist Christians then that's your prerogative but I don't think it reflects the reality. Of course those people comprise a subset of Trump voters and those are the probably the ones openly identifying as Trump supporters and answering the social research questions you referred to but there is clearly a large proportion of voters that voted for him outside those groups.

Eh? Bizarre logic. My actual beliefs would have me dismissed as a frothing transphobe on here. Let's just say you couldn't be more wrong.

I just find it hard to comprehend how someone who's concerned about women and girls thinks an actual, convicted sex offender with designs on stripping away women's bodily autonomy and right to basic healthcare is in any way better for women than the perceived threat of the odd man in the women's loos.

Neither party has women's best interests at heart.

She lost because she is a woman. America is misogynistic, racist and sexist. Female bosses are still treated like they are incompetent. We would rather put an unqualified convicted sex offender with a penis in office than a qualified person with a vagina. Trumps last presidency left many of us in awful shape and it is going to get worse. He preys on the weak minded and they lap it up. It is disgusting.

I disagree. Every single person I know who is a supporter fits all of those stereotypes and they are brainwashed followers. There is no way you could vote with a good conscience for him if you didn't have some sort of bigoted mindset. He lost the popular vote last time but his last presidency normalized the bigotry and hatred and it has stayed.

And yet this terrible nation full of racists and fascists voted Obama into office. Twice.

"I think you need to pay less attention to the 'social research' and more attention to the actual facts"

Eh?

What do you think 'social research' is?

Fiction?

But interested to hear your explanations as to why white men overwhelmingly likely to vote for Trump in both this election and 2020, and Black women are overwhelmingly voted Democrat in both elections.

Obviously you'll feel obligated to give me an explanation that has nothing to do with gender or race, so I'm interested to hear it. 🤔

as has been repeatedly proven if you care to look, elective double mascatomies, and cross sex hormones are in no way "health care" - doctors who are complicit in this abuse should be struck off.

Confused young women deserve so much better than the gender cult will offer.

"as has been repeatedly proven if you care to look, elective double mascatomies, and cross sex hormones are in no way "health care" - doctors who are complicit in this abuse should be struck off."

My understanding is that 80% of gender affirming mastectomies in the US are being done on cis-gender men with gynecomastia. Of the 151 breast reduction surgeries that were done on minors in the US in 2019, 97% were done on cisgender male minors.

"Confused young women deserve so much better than the gender cult will offer."

Is this your experience from counselling young people with gender dysphoria? What's been your experience of engagement with them? Have you had your own child or friend go through this? Are you an HCP with training and expertise in this area?

Or is this just a hobby for you and you don't actually know any transgender people and have never asked them their thoughts on this issue?

"And yet this terrible nation full of racists and fascists voted Obama into office. Twice."

Nobody's suggesting that racism and xenophobia is a massive issue for Dem voters.

Percieved threat of a man in the women's loo? There should be no males in females loos, they have their own facilities.
There should also be no males in female sport, again they have their own teams.
Lets hope Kemi, Trump, Vance & the Republicans ban this, they can lobby for gender neutral spaces & sports teams if they don't want to use the ones aligned to their biological birth sex.

I so glad that so much awareness is being given to this & the pushback has rightly been massive. Incredible that a woman like Kamala actualy condones this. The world is waking up, delighted she lost. Trump & Co need to get legislation in place ASAP.

@SpidersAreShitheads

Very well said and put. It’s so depressing at the moment in politics we are all voting for least worst options. The world is in such a dangerous position - I feel as if this must have been what it was like in the 1930s.

As you say, the picture is complex. There are so many deeply divisive issues - gender, world conflict, social and wealth inequality, religious intolerance, cost of living crises, poor public services, mistrust of politicians and public figures, the legacy of Covid and lockdowns - these are all complex issues and a heady and worrying combination.