Kamala supporters/ democrats: why do you think you've lost?

[TERFCat]

From reading Twitter, the rhetoric on the left seems to be that they've lost because Trump voters are stupid, racist, sexist etc etc.

Personally, I think that the conversation needs far more nuance than name calling.

I'm left wing but can't vote for anyone who will allow men into women's safe spaces or will sterilize autistic/ gay children. If this makes me "thick" or "fascist", then so be it, but those names won't change my vote.

Can you link to where the source of that quote please :-)

"And that bodies should be medical altered to make them look like those intangible gender beliefs."

If I couched the phrase like this: 'And that people should be allowed to have surgeries or treatment that increase their sense of their external body being what they believe is a truer reflection of their internal self.'

I personally would never have elective surgery of any sort. But I stand by people's right to make different decisions - as long as they're given information that is accurate about their treatment. Of course there are many treatments and medications that we don't fully understand and that may have long term negative effects on the individual. A lot of psychiatric medication falls into this category, as do some oncology treatments. As long as patients are aware that evidence may flag up further risks or problems and as long as they have access to all the good quality information that's currently available when they're at the point of making a decision about surgery/treatment I can't see the huge ethical objection.

Question for you - bit of a tangent - can you talk about your relationships with transgender people in real life. You have very strong opinions about what's right and wrong for them so I'd assume you've had family/friends/children transition or consider transitioning? Have you talked to any transgender people about their care (in real life?). There are so few people who've gone through surgery or treatment the majority posting on this subject have no personal involvement or experience of this issue. I only know two transgender adults. They appear to be living happy, fulfilled lives ` as their preferred gender.

@izimbra the difference between you and I is I object solidly and unreservedly to this, whilst you support it.

This poor child.

its the last paragraph of the "About us" https://segm.org/about_us

SEGM have been given leave to file an amicus brief at the supreme court.

They are all for evidence lead heathcare - they say "Our aim is to promote safe, compassionate, ethical and evidence-informed healthcare for children, adolescents, and young adults with gender dysphoria"
so you probably will find them to be hateful bigots.

Question for you - bit of a tangent - can you talk about your relationships with transgender people in real life. You have very strong opinions about what's right and wrong for them so I'd assume you've had family/friends/children transition or consider transitioning? Have you talked to any transgender people about their care (in real life?). There are so few people who've gone through surgery or treatment the majority posting on this subject have no personal involvement or experience of this issue. I only know two transgender adults. They appear to be living happy, fulfilled lives ` as their preferred gender.

Answer for you - yes, my daughter is autistic. CAMHS tried to lead her down the path that she might really be a boy because she preferred the feeling of 'boys' clothes due to having sensory processing issues, and doesn't follow the stereotypical interests that most girls are assumed to prefer.

We are firmly of the belief that there is no wrong way for a girl to be and resisted and were able to convince her that she is perfect as a girl.

Post puberty she is definitely more comfortable in her own skin than she was going through it. She is also starting to explore the fact she might be a lesbian or bi-sexual. No issues here with that.

I think encouraging children that they might really be the 'other gender' and need surgery to fix them is vile.

Children like my daughter need protecting from people with views like yours.

If I couched the phrase like this: 'And that people should be allowed to have surgeries or treatment that increase their sense of their external body being what they believe is a truer reflection of their internal self.'

Would you tell an anorexic they were indeed fat?

Would you encourage them to diet more even if they were underweight but felt theeir true internal self was thinner?

What about the people who want to cut a healthy limb off?

Should they be able to disable themselves or would you see this as a mental illness?

Would you support elective amputations of healthy limbs if it meant they would then be medicalised forever, and be reliant on NHS treatment for their surgically inflicted injuries?
Should the NHS them supply them with wheelchairs and fund their physical rehabilitation?

Where would you place them in the queue with people who lost a limb in a terrorist attack, or from illness, war, or a road traffic accident?

Or is it just people who want to chop their genitals off you support to be a "truer reflection of their internal self"?

she is so lucky to have you as a parent! Sadly too many parents are swayed by the gender woo and persuaded to actively harm their own children. Look at that poor boy who's parents castrated him & put him on the cover of National Gergraphic (upthread).

What a shock it must have been to have CAHMS try to trans your daughter.

For most gender confused kids, puberty is the cure - when they start to understand their sexuality post puberty they realise why they might "feel different" to other kid - i.e.e they are gay. the best thing that can happen with these children is they have supportive parents like you who are confident enough not to follow the shocking bad advice to trans & irrevocably harm them. Puberty is the cure and yet they have been giving these children puberty blockers - blocking them from experiencing the cure to their distress.

It really is a very evil cult.

Thanks @RobinEllacotStrike .

When I've spoken about this in the past I've had people tell me that I am a bigot and I have a son not a daughter. It's shocking.

In our area there are very few autistic females my daughters age who don't now identify as either a boy or non - binary. I have a theory that part of the reason is to signpost over to gender services wait list and remove from the responsbility of CAMHS but I can't prove it. Julie in Gender Land https://open.spotify.com/show/5XK1wTA4PTgvwLvDZcKwP9 also has stories, one of the families I am very sure is the same NHS trust to our family.

CAMHS aren’t fit for purpose. What a horrendous approach - and lucky that your DD was able to find out what was really at the heart of her unease.

And that’s the point isn’t it?! Many children who experience gender dysphoria actually have something else going on but gender affirming care means that this can’t be explored.

Neurodivergent girls make up a high proportion of those who want to transition. As do gay children.

Understanding your body as an autistic teen is hard, and complicated. And there’s often the need for an “answer” - many autistic people feel the unknown is more difficult. So being presented with a “solution” might feel like the right path when actually, it’s just about going through puberty and learning how to manage sensory challenges. Feeling “other” in society is unfortunately fairly common for autistic people but as a teen, it’s easy to assume that’s because of gender rather than understanding it’s due to neurodivergence.

(Disclaimer: I’m an autistic woman with autistic DC).

And for children who are gay, it’s even harder. Realising that you are same-sex attracted in a heteronormative world is another big journey. The world today is still homophobic in many ways.

Much of my friendship circle belongs to the LGBT community. No one thinks male bodies belong in single sex sports or in single sex spaces. Decent men stay out of women’s spaces, regardless of their personal identity. And many are concerned about gay teens being told they’re confused about their gender identity rather than being given support to accept their sexuality. It’s just the latest form of conversion for gay people.

Isn't it interesting that @izimbra hasn't come back to this thread but is instead on other feminist boards trying to convince women to lower their boundaries.

Quite

www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/sealioning-internet-trolling#:~:text=Sealioning%20refers%20to%20the%20disingenuous,questions%20of%20the%20other%20commenter.

Hi!

👋

Dramatic talk here about 'genitals being chopped off' I see.

Back to the 'why do you think Kamala lost'.

I think Kamala lost for the same reason incumbents have lost/reduced their vote share in elections across the world this year - because of inflation, and xenophobia. Already said this, can't see any reason to shift on it. The economy and the border were the two big issues in the election.

"feminist boards trying to convince women to lower their boundaries"

Not really.

I posted a couple of times, realise I was in a massive echo chamber and fucked off.

It's boring being ranted at by GC 'hobbyists'.

I would have voted for the democrats to protect women’s right to abortion. But I would have had to really hold my nose and look the other way to do so.

buying into gender ideology and self id poisons every administration that does so.

Sturgeon in Scotland, Varadkar in Ireland, Sanna Marin in Finland, Harris / Biden in the US, Trudeau in Canada (soon). Telling the public that you believe men can be women just because they say so, and that this gives them access to every female space: how can any one trust a politician that says they believe this? Is they will accept this, is there anything that they won’t accept? Or does it mean that anything goes now - everyone is fair game?

Absolutely, TRAs can deny it all they like but the Democrats will do so at their Peril.

Polls demonstrate it was the third reason after inflation and immigration, but TRAs don't have a great track record when it comes to actual facts.

And like it or not, the left / Democrats claim and rely on occupying the moral high ground.

I already know trump is a liar and a misogynist: that already built in to any assessment I make of him. It’s a given. But the Dems / left have to be better than that - and when they aren’t, when they lie about something as fundamental sex, when they claim that when male = female just because they say so, and they destroy women’s rights to single sex spaces, it feels like much more of a betrayal coming from them. Because they were meant to be better than him.

The economy

yes voters are annoyed about the wine agenda many about woman’s rights over their own bodies but when life is getting harder and it’s not fully acknowledged it was a huge mistake

and of course the lies around Biden he has not been fit for office for years

Very good piece by Oliver Laughland in todays Guardian. Kamala Harris didn't come out in favour of a $15/ £11.80 minimum way until a fortnight before the election. Trump dodged questions on this issue so you'd think it was a great opportunity.

Meanwhile two Republican states , Alastair and Missouri , voted for $15 minimum wage on amendments. Nutshell.

The problem is that you don’t respond or engage with valid questions.

People here raised the reasons why gender ideology is a problem and you ignored those comments. Your approach is basically “be kind” which is something I completely understand but by “being kind” to trans identifying men, you’re actually being unkind and excluding a whole heap of biological women. But that’s something you’re not willing to acknowledge or respond to.

I read your previous comments and I see you have trans people in your life, so I get it.

And I think that’s sometimes the problem. If you know and love an individual with a trans identity, you just want them to be ok. So it’s easy to extrapolate that they are what the whole trans community is like, and that anyone objects is a bigot because your friend is harmless.

I find a lot of people who vigorously support gender ideology often have personal reasons.

I also think that if gender ideology hadn’t been pushed too far and too hard, you wouldn’t be seeing such resistance in the mainstream. Children being encouraged down the gender route behind their parents’ back and male bodies in women’s sport peaked the nation.

Unfortunately society as a whole doesn’t care much about women’s rights in general - but when it comes to physical harm in sports and involving children, the wider public sat up and started to object. And that was a problem for the Democrats.

people. calling those who care about uncontrolled mass immigration xenophobes lost her the election.