People of the left, can we learn some lessons from Trump's win please?

[Outandinbout]

And other things, like Brexit, the disaster that was Jeremy Corbyn and his campaign.

Whilst there will be multi-factorial reasons for the way all these votes went, one of the reason, imo, is that far too many people on the left think anyone who disagrees with them is thick and racist. Do you remember that mock advert for Labour during JCs campaign? ' You are thick and racist - Vote Labour!'. That raised laughs because it resonated with how people felt about the Left.

Just stop being so bloody certain you are right and everyone else is wrong and start bloody listening to people who voted the way you don't want them to. Figure out why that is. Realise they actually have some legitimate concerns. Find ways to address these.

Because, and I can't believe I actually have to point this out, insulting people is not the way to win them over. Addressing their concerns is.

Because its not smart to sit there smugly thinking you are always right, even when voters are repeatedly disagreeing with you. It feels nice to think that, yes. But all that means is that you lack the courage to move yourself out of your psychological comfort zone. Its lazy, not smart. And it shows a distinct lack of intellectual curiosity.

I'm pretty pissed at Trump winning as I support Ukraine. I think the Left in America needs to look pretty hard at itself as to why a candidate such as Trump has won. And the left in the UK has lessons to learn too.

Yes, I don't think this helps. Demanding that people believe in the absurdity that sex is changeable and then berating them for objecting doesn't build on the idea that they are a fact checking power house of truthfulness.

And I'm not a climate change denier. Obviously. But I can see how that can become a contested narrative, obfuscated by the background noise of the global climate being forever in flux. I understand how someone could believe that without a shred of malice, whilst absolutely disagreeing with them.

But do I believe someone can say that that 6 foot guy with a pronoun badge, mopping up the sporting titles is a woman - without suspecting that the intention is that I submit to a falsehood to prove allegiance? Nope.

We live in an environment where peoples' entire sense of reality and everything they think they know about the world has been relentlessly shaped by billionaire- funded propaganda. These are the limits of the current Overton Window. And what we're going to do about that I don't really know...

😂bloody vegetarians controlling the internet with their autocarrot.

Peppers keep longer in the fridge, preppers keep longer in bunkers.

Maybe the way to see it if that not everyone would have your same opinion, views and priorities? And that is ok. We can’t all be the same. Respect other people’s view and if you want to persuade them do not alienate them by insulting their intellect. Be aware of generational gaps and do not make older people irrelevant.

If Vance wins next that will not be the fault of the left that will be on the people that voted for him because they don't like what the left offer them.
If people don't want the progressive offer from the left - the left can't just fundamentally change and become the right instead.

Oh I don't know, seems to have worked for Keir Starmer...🙄

I can do that but they've always got a "reason" why they won't vote left
And tbh I don't respect anyone who'd vote for a racist rapist criminal - and they certainly don't respect my left leaning views.
It goes both ways.

Absolutely this. It's infuriating that people can't see how irritating and demeaning this is even when scores of Black and Asian people say it, over and over again. All Black people aren't the same. They have different backgrounds and experiences, just like White people. In fact moreso, when you look at the spread of Black people over two continents, and differences in religion amongst Asians in particular. We are far less homogeneous than White Europeans. They are entitled to have different views. By saying Badenoch/Patel /Braverman/ Cleverley etc are trojan horses for White Racists is basically denying them a right to autonomous thought. It's saying they are too stupid to think for themselves because they have come to the wrong opinion. Too stupid to know when people are being racist towards them. I am of the Left but this is the one thing that infuriates me more than anything else. As an Asian woman, I find it personally insulting and dehumanising in ways almost nothing else does. Other Black and Asian people have said the same thing but it keeps on happening. Mostly by White Lefties.

Wrong...White people are entitled to a view. Why wouldn't they be?

I wonder, after Biden's victory in 2020, how many right wing commentators were publicly asking whether calling their opponents out-of-touch, foolish, unpatriotic libtards might have lost them the election? My guess is close to zero.

The 'debate' on women's sex based rights shows that the Left are certainly not the fans of facts and evidence you are claiming here. but are as a capable of holding firm to fact free positions as anyone else in the world. And in this case its stark. Its blatantly obvious that there are two sexes, that people cannot change sex, and that gender identity does not trump sex when it comes to women's prisons, rape crisis centres, changing rooms and sports, and that male predators will take advantage of the safeguarding loophole this position provides. It is very hard to take seriously the left's claim that they are the smart critical thinkers, based in evidence when they are the ones primarily pushing this agenda. They cannot even define their own key terms yet alone mount evidence to support their position, and their only tactic seems to be to call people who disagree with them names.

You can't tell dawn she's wrong about this you really can't as she's entitled to her view as a black woman

I don’t know whether this was an issue for many voters but for me I was taken aback about how much they covered up Biden’s decline. I know the media played a role in that so it’s not just the Democrats.

I did hear voters interviewed mention that Harris wasn’t selected through a primary and didn’t think that was legit. Also long before the election there has been criticism that Harris hasn’t been visible and certainly not at the border when immigration was supposed to be one of her roles. And immigration is a big concern for a lot of voters.

Seasmoke · Today 09:40

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · Today 08:27
Have you heard of Dawn Butler?

Butler is one of the Hard Left Labour MP's who are exactly what the OP is talking about. Labour generally have ditched most of them but she is so dim and does this so often she is easy to ignore. There are far fewer of them than they were in the Corbyn days but they and their activists are still there. They are more of an opposition than the Tories to the Labour government.

So we mustn’t insult the intelligence of right wingers but it’s ok to call Butler dim?

So you pretended that you was on the left when you wrote the post then that's OK then so we know where we stand

When you meet someone do you just see their skin colour, is it the most important thing about them? Not their sex, or their life experience,education,aspirations? That's racist.

Ok. If your position is that in a democracy the parties do not have to listen to the concerns of voters and address them, then enjoy opposition.

Are you a little bit daft? Where have you got that from? I am saying what I am saying. Is if a black woman wants to have the conversation about another black woman How she believes she's been a traitor to her own race. She's entitled to have that conversation. I as a white woman, don't get to say, oh, that's not Fine. I don't judge people based on nothing but what I find them to be. It's not me that goes on about how many black people are in adverts that tends to be a lot of people on the right. You always see that on groups like this, for instance, as an example

I don't have party allegiances anymore but my politics are of the left, as are 98% of the women who support sex based rights that I know.

The fact that you think women's basic human rights are not an issue an issue for the left, tells me a lot about you.

It's having the opposite effect on me. If all I have it today, or even just this moment, I am going to enjoy it as much as possible. There are too many assholes out their who demand attention or they will burn the world down.

I can't stop them, but I can plug my ears and do my own thing for as long as possible.

Oh and plus, I note that you proved here the point I made in my post that people with your views don't mount arguments to support your position but instead just throw out what you think are insults.

So thanks for evidencing my argument 🙃

So basically, we're sacrificing our right to abortion and contraception and to read whatever books we want to read on the gender critical altar.

It was more when you stated the lefts claim which you put showing you r not on the left even though you claimed you was. I haven't been personal to you I have critiqued yes

Hardly an insult if being progressive means you want equality for all then yes count me in even trans people I don't see that is contrary to me being a woman but hey ho

What a bonkers argument. If I were a Christian and I said, ' Christians believe...' would you take that as evidence that I was not a Christian?!