People of the left, can we learn some lessons from Trump's win please?

[Outandinbout]

And other things, like Brexit, the disaster that was Jeremy Corbyn and his campaign.

Whilst there will be multi-factorial reasons for the way all these votes went, one of the reason, imo, is that far too many people on the left think anyone who disagrees with them is thick and racist. Do you remember that mock advert for Labour during JCs campaign? ' You are thick and racist - Vote Labour!'. That raised laughs because it resonated with how people felt about the Left.

Just stop being so bloody certain you are right and everyone else is wrong and start bloody listening to people who voted the way you don't want them to. Figure out why that is. Realise they actually have some legitimate concerns. Find ways to address these.

Because, and I can't believe I actually have to point this out, insulting people is not the way to win them over. Addressing their concerns is.

Because its not smart to sit there smugly thinking you are always right, even when voters are repeatedly disagreeing with you. It feels nice to think that, yes. But all that means is that you lack the courage to move yourself out of your psychological comfort zone. Its lazy, not smart. And it shows a distinct lack of intellectual curiosity.

I'm pretty pissed at Trump winning as I support Ukraine. I think the Left in America needs to look pretty hard at itself as to why a candidate such as Trump has won. And the left in the UK has lessons to learn too.

So many good points on this thread but unfortunately think tanks all that don't listen to mn 🤣🤣.
A young student was being interviewed at a polling station and he said he wouldn't vote for kh. Why?
Because apparently she had said people under a certain age or college students where thick?

Remember Emily Thornbury white van man?
Gordon Brown bigot comment??

Starmer showed done humility at his first speech as pm, we will tread lightly on your lives.

Swiftly follows by attack on pensioner and then arrogant declaring I will go to the football either you pay for it tax payers or I will get lord Ali to fund it (along with everything else).

Unless he adopts some humility he won't last beyond next term. Kemi badanoch had a "tone" when she mentioned nigel farage.

We will be awash with reform unless they wake up!!

If I was a little bit daft I expect I'd be too daft to know it, but an intellectual heavyweight would have a bit more self awareness I guess.

I want equality for all. I want equality for trans people as trans people. Not as the opposite sex. Just as I don't want able bodied people to have rights to disabled people's spaces in the name of equality, I don't want men to have access to women's spaces where those spaces exist specifically to stop women being disadvantaged or harmed by male presence.

Views like yours are exactly why he got in.

The Left never learn because they think that it is always someone else's fault. They couldn't possibly be wrong.

Well, you are.

Just look at Dawn Butler's reaction to Kemi being elected.

No. I think the election has been won on the economy.

But if you run your campaign on being the truthful party, one resolutely wedded to facts, then it's probably best not to undermine the statement by throwing up something as observable and fundamental as the immutability of sex for grabs.

@MrsSkylerWhite

"So we mustn’t insult the intelligence of right wingers but it’s ok to call Butler dim?"

To my knowledge Dawn Butler is not dim or uneducated but she is most definitely a left wing racist.

Start prepping and either move 100 miles from any big city or military infrastructure or within a mile so it'll be over quicker, also on a hill in the middle of a tectonic plate.

@Userranoutofnumberd

Absolutely, dreadful man.
I'm sure I heard a historian on the radio saying no one has ever one an election from that position (kh).
Awful.. Even bj was saying in tv before he was cut off he found Biden to very amiable ( although he did repeat things a few times)!! That was way back!!

I absolutely agree.

Nope, I still can’t think of a good enough reason that I could use to justify voting for him.

Many of us didn't need to vote for him for him to win. We can just not vote or vote third party. Everyone has known for well over a year that the Democrats needed to focus on the growing independent vote, that voter refusal, small parties and independents would take more from Democrats, that focusing on evil Trump wasn't going to work this time - but the Democrats didn't change tactics. They need to take some responsibility for their choices in that.

Take some responsibility for your choices

When Hilary Clinton lost, Jill Stein of the Greens got a lot of flack for "taking" votes, as if she'd stolen them. I imagine she will again, probably more than the others. That some people value the smaller parties over what the major parties is not the fault of the smaller parties. That people see no one they want to vote for isn't really their fault either. Hilary Clinton was at least able to admit how her rhetoric on the voter base, calling them all the isms in the book was not a great look, but much of the rest of the party ignored.

But why is it ok for the right to sneer at the left and call them elite educated as though the left is totally divorced from the real world?

In the US, it's because the Democrat strongholds are on the West Coast and parts of the North East. These areas have the major money and media centers and have repeatedly dismissed and shit on the rest of the country. West Coast Democrats particularly have a reputation of being ideological and entirely out of touch with reality - see the issues in many of their cities and how they're portrayed in the rest of the US, how California's threats to tax people and companies who leave is being treated. Harris's has had repeated actions in this campaign that fit that.

Trump is also a clueless elite, there are whispers of the less than pleasant reasons why the Republicans chose to endorse him the first time around and they're stuck with him since. With two clueless elites, the main choices were shite...which ended up hurting the Democrats more as they were warned it would. Unless the party takes responsibility and recognises how they have pushed away their voter based in many areas, this will keep happening.

Totally agree, OP. I live in Wales, where Welsh Labour have been in power for 25 years and work on the basis that they'll always be in power because after Thatcher no one here will vote Tory. Because they've been in power since devolution, without a serious opposition, they just ignore those of us on the left who disagree with their direction of travel. Reasonable left-leaning people are barred from a seat at the table because we believe in, say, biology and sex, or because we can see huge issues developing within, say, maternity services in Welsh hospitals, and want to warn them about it. I hope Welsh Labour looks at the US election result this morning and decides to change its strategy of not listening to anyone it disagrees with. It's vital for democracy that they do.

I just find it staggering a nation the size of USA (or any nation) could not find two better candidates to run for president. Harris nothing to say and did nothing to help bring the farce of Biden being mentally unfit for office to a swifter end. So so she got the "nomination" by default. Her spectacular failure as the "southern border tsar" during the current term must've factored into voters' anger and concern at the torrents of illegal migrants pouring into the country, and this issue in particular is now affecting states where it was never an issue before. I've holidayed in the US quite a few times over the past 30 years - the last time I was horrified at the price of food staples in supermarkets - this is a big problem for average Americans.

I see David Lammy has had a change of heart previously calling Donald Trump "a tyrant in a toupee " he has now stated that Donald Trump is "often misunderstood " along with calling JD Vance "my friend ".

You're not fooling anyone David least of all Trump and Vance!

I agree with the sentiment.

However I wonder if they were trying to learn form UK last election and learnt the wrong lessons - despite it being being different electorates there is movement from Democratic and Republican advisors over here and back.

Labour last election was lighter than usual on policy (or people weren't taking on board what they were saying and projecting their hopes onto them) knowing they just had to not scare the horses as Tory's were losing - and Starmer was much more of an unknown than many previous candidates.

I wonder if that why Harris was so light on actual policy - more I saw of her less chance I thought she had - Trump was a poor candidate but voters went with him.

If Biden had stepped back sooner any candidate would have had more time to get established and make it clear who they were not just the anti Trump vote - plus the whole party got tainted with the obvious lies about Bidens health - (not that Trump looks healthy or that they haven't lied about his health).

Also think the campaign did Hollywood big thing at the minute assuming if you put a non white person or a women in a role that's enough to bring in audiences rather than good story telling.

I don't except to get that lucky

Think it’s more complex than left wingers not understanding what leads others to vote hard right. Divisiveness hasn’t helped anyone and this understanding is definitely worth trying to gain. Right wing rhetoric thrives on division and left wing ideals try to promote social cohesion.. but there’s loads of other complex issues going on here as well.
America has far fewer social safeguards than we do in terms of an NHS etc so the economy is always going to be the crucial voting issue for so many people in the US. Even though the American economy lately under Biden has been doing well. Trump with Musk and oligarchs by his side by a superficial analysis probably looks economically impressive.

The Democrats haven’t done enough to earn the votes of all left wingers either. Look at how much the Green Party share in the US vote has jumped. The war in the Middle East and how the west should respond has been incredibly divisive for left wingers. Trump and the Greens on either side of that debate may have attracted votes from people who feel alienated by the Democrats’ position.

I just find it staggering a nation the size of USA (or any nation) could not find two better candidates to run for president

@redalex261 I agree. I think the line that USA will never vote a woman President would have had more credibility if Michelle Obama, or someone else of equal ability and charisma had been running. But Harris was just dreadful. Vague, vacuous answers. And saying she would do nothing differently from Biden was just saying, 'I have no ideas. Vote for me!' Particularly stupid as Biden's popularity was really low, so people clearly wanted something different!

This issue rather sums up the current 'Left' for me. It's only a microcosm, and one that I suspect many voters don't care about, but it's really indicative of the fact that instead of looking at the fundamental problems inherent in rampant capitalism, they lose support by shouting 'right-wing bigots' at those simply pointing out that women are losing sex-based rights to men. I cannot see how that position is left-wing, supporting as it does an entire medical industrial complex.
The Left need to focus rather more on current capitalism and rather less on insisting that males should have even more power than they do already.

That happened under the Tory government, with our media in the control of a handful of wealthy people, with capitalism the dominant economic & ideologic force on the planet. But sure, it's the "left".

Yeh all that stuff from Lammy and Labour, they will be feeling it this morning.

I agree. I sometimes think Labour politicians should wear tights and a cape, because if there is a problem anywhere in society they believe they are the superheroes who can solve it with more government.

I agree with this.

I'm am center left - and actually like and approve of some polices of welsh government but have real concerns and deal with impact of some service they are in charge of.

I was shocked to find out recently via ITV news one of reasons reading is such an issue is lack of endorsement of phonics - still despite overwhelming research backing it as best for 99% of kids. Media scrutiny did seem to be pushing some changes in policy.

However try mentioning it on here you get shouted down as Tory voting scum.

How anyone can think what the Labour government have done is anything like what the tories would have done I don't understand.
Tories were offering tax cuts funded by further cuts inmpublic services.
Labour are funding public services with tax increases on the wealthy and employers.

Genuinely, can you give some examples or links? I haven’t seen or heard this.

And I completely agree with you. For gods sake I wish the left would just start looking and listening why people are voting the way they do. Then we might have a chance of a fairer more positive world if they could swing to the centre a bit!!

Okay but can you not see how you've just done exactly what I said the right have a tendency to do in my post... you've not addressed my point about the right wings relationship with facts and evidence, you've ignored that and talked about the left instead. I'm genuinely interested in how you feel! We see loads of clips of right wing voters, presented with evidence who ignore it, and start talking about the left or throwing out slogans, and when asked for evidence of a claim can't provide any - how do you feel about that? How do you feel about what you see? Do you often think 'well, there's loads of evidence, I could bring up 10 different data points on this, and would be able to counter any data that goes against what I'm saying by providing evidence on the context on which both data sets were done in, any inaccuracies in reporting or failures in research pools/technique'? I want to know! I genuinely want to understand!

Six states expand abortion protections as Florida ballot fails

Voters in six states have approved measures to protect or expand abortion rights, but a bid to restore protections for the procedure failed in Florida.

A variety of questions on abortion access were on the ballot in 10 states during the seismic election, in which the issue was a galvanising force for many voters.
The proposal in Florida would have allowed abortion until the point of foetal viability or about 24 weeks, but it fell short of the threshold of 60% support in order to pass.
But an amendment aimed at overturning a near-total abortion ban in Missouri, where a majority of voters backed Donald Trump, appeared on track for victory.

....

While the ballot looked different in each of the 10 states, most asked whether the right to abortion until foetal viability should be enshrined.
Since the ruling, campaigns to restore or protect abortion access by using state-level ballot propositions have been successful, including in reliably conservative states such as Kansas.

It not as clear cut - many states are getting laws protecting abortion rights on their books.