People of the left, can we learn some lessons from Trump's win please?

[Outandinbout]

And other things, like Brexit, the disaster that was Jeremy Corbyn and his campaign.

Whilst there will be multi-factorial reasons for the way all these votes went, one of the reason, imo, is that far too many people on the left think anyone who disagrees with them is thick and racist. Do you remember that mock advert for Labour during JCs campaign? ' You are thick and racist - Vote Labour!'. That raised laughs because it resonated with how people felt about the Left.

Just stop being so bloody certain you are right and everyone else is wrong and start bloody listening to people who voted the way you don't want them to. Figure out why that is. Realise they actually have some legitimate concerns. Find ways to address these.

Because, and I can't believe I actually have to point this out, insulting people is not the way to win them over. Addressing their concerns is.

Because its not smart to sit there smugly thinking you are always right, even when voters are repeatedly disagreeing with you. It feels nice to think that, yes. But all that means is that you lack the courage to move yourself out of your psychological comfort zone. Its lazy, not smart. And it shows a distinct lack of intellectual curiosity.

I'm pretty pissed at Trump winning as I support Ukraine. I think the Left in America needs to look pretty hard at itself as to why a candidate such as Trump has won. And the left in the UK has lessons to learn too.

I think the Americans demonstrated a lot of what people in the U.K. do think...but the conservatives were not right wing at all...very centre.

The reality is in any environment you get the "right on" group, typically left wing and a lot more rolling their eyes and can't be bothered, but when it comes to the ballot box they votes on what matters to them, especially finance. This time around there was not real choice as the Conservatives have abandoned any pretence of right wing free market economy and Reform were a protest vote arena.

We will see what happens next time if the opposition get their shit together as we have rapidly seen all the lies Labour have told...including this 22 billion black hole. When they have run out of spending others money then let's see.

Speaking generally I'm fed up with politicians, of all hues, just vilifying the opposition. We see it all the time at PMQ. It's like a ridiculous music hall act. No wonder most people aren't engaged with politics. And, when there are elections, a huge amount of energy is spent telling us how awful the others are.
Tell us what you would do, how you would do it and how much it will cost. Actual policies so we can choose.

She had policies?

That is a serious question. Not an attempt to be "funny".

Her platform seemed to have two planks: (1) I'm not Trump. (2) Let's have more of what we had for the past 4 years.

I think number (2) is what cost her the election.

I know you re a very strong Tory supporter but tbh the only one rolling eyes is you.
& the only one who has spent other peoples money and used it all up is your lot, they took over with debt at 65% of GDP, its now 100% and nothing to show for it.

The "black hole" is real, Hunt never funded public sector pay rises, never funded his 4% cut to NI, never funded Blood and PO compensation.... it was all supposed to be paid for via cuts in the benefits bill.

I don't see what lies Labour have told at all but i do see is a non stop stream of lies attacking Labour.

So you are an American voter? You indicated that you were a British voter when you dismissed the Labour win as a Tory loss. That is just soundbite politics as in Britain, that isn't what happened. I don't know why people are insisting on comparing American politics with British politics for a start the 'left' in Britain are not akin to the Democrats. The reasons the Democrats lost is concerned with American politics and I'm struggling to see what lessons can be learnt as here the Labour party which is more left wing than the Democrats, was elected as the government for the UK. If you are referring to Reform voters and lessons to be learnt, well most were from places that aren't as wealthy so dissatisfaction makes sense. The wealthy ex Tory voters voted Lib Dems and they want the Conservatives to prioritise the economy, centre themselves again, rejoin the EU and not elect the right of right wing for the new leadership of the Conservative party!

I think this is wholly inaccurate. Ex- conservative voters that are interested in the growth and performance of the economy didn't vote for Reform they voted for the Lib Dems so no, many people in the UK don't think along the lines of Trump support.

America is a different place with a different culture.

This right wing website sums up how Trump voters see things.

https://americanliberty.news/commentary/explaining-trumps-victory-to-europe-the-values-that-defined-the-election/amuse/2024/11/

Labour only just scraped a slightly higher vote than Corbyn did five years ago. That's not "taking on board" the Corbyn years. If they had genuinely learned, they'd have polled far higher.

Labour won because the Tory vote collapsed and lots of Tory voters moved to Libdems or Remain.

Unless Starmer, Reeves and Raynor massively improve their performance, they don't have a hope in hell's chance of winning in 2029 which will be determined by the Tory party performance as opposition for five years, not Labour's performance as Government.

Have a crystal ball do you.

You are banking on the Conservative party still being around, looking doubtful with them missing the point again and choosing this right of right leader! Isn't the average age of the Conservative party members 70, not very encouraging for winning the next election.

@Alexandra2001 wrong..I’m not a Conservative supporter at all. Certainly all I saw from their time is govt is exactly what you described about increasing public spending, even allowing for the ridiculous Covid spending. The bottom line is we have no politicians currently that have any stomach to stop increasing spending and taxing more. As for attacking Labour..get used to it as it will only get worse, especially when we hit critical levels of borrowing

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2024.11.10-013452/www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/only-one-candidate-made-women-feel-bullied-and-repulsed-and-it-wasnt-trump-8jhrxqfrt" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2024.11.10-013452/www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/only-one-candidate-made-women-feel-bullied-and-repulsed-and-it-wasnt-trump-8jhrxqfrt

Stella Cresey types need to learn the lesson that she is viewed as being more interested in operations than women.

Most women don't care about abortions and care about trans identity. Stella finds her own children that survived to birth as an inconvenience along with autistic children she is keen to sterilise and disabled babies invitro she wants removed.

I can almost guarantee she will vote for assistance suicide all the way to it being given to those with diabetes.

They have been in power for 4 months as opposed to 14 years of damage.

I must have mistaken you for someone else.

Borrowing under Labour isn't predicted to go up at all & not critical levels either, more lies.

Unfortunately, Austerity just leads to higher borrowing and higher taxation... there is a reason why the Tories increased both pre 2020.

Damn right!

The voting analysis coming in now, the Democrats lost across many groups, typically thought to be their base included

IF and its a huge if, Labour sort out NHS dentistry, reduce waiting lists and motorists see improvements in road surface plus we dont get too many global shocks... i think it will be v difficult for the Tories to overturn their defeat in July.

Their performance in opposition wont matter a jot, as in 2024, it comes down to peoples lived experiences, same as in the USA.

What was it Clinton said about the economy?

Coming late to this thread but that wasn't the choice for all voters. Voters had lengthy ballot papers for multiple decisions - not just the president.

In many areas it was perfectly possible to vote Trump for president, Independent for Congress, Dem for Senate, Nancy Bloggs for sheriff, Tom Smith for chair of the parish council, "yes" in the vote to protect women's reproductive rights, "no to an increase in local state representation, "no" to increased parking restrictions, green for lamposts instead of blue and a host of other great and small decisions.

Some of my colleagues had ballot papers several pages long with federal, state and local decisions and election choices. So perfectly possible to vote to protect reproductive rights in your state whilst voting Republican for the presidency. Most of the overseas coverage seems to present this election as a binary choice on one issue - it wasn't.

Californians apparently got a 20 page booklet accompanying their ballot paper!

If they get us out the mess will uou vote Labour next time?

I think it's a tactic to say the left are nasty about the right and that's why the left lose. To deflect from the rights polices which are often by their nature not nice to some people like the disabled or immigrants or disadvantaged people.

The Trump campaign ran on hatred - he made allusion to shooting former republicans - men now chant your body my choice - but the left are the meanies.

Left wing Labour/Democrats policies are boring. Sometimes difficult (higher taxation/action to combat climate change) it's very hard to compete against the rabid policies that were run by Trump with no consideration of whether they are real or not.

In 4 years time - if food and gas prices are still high/higher they may well vote him out again!