People of the left, can we learn some lessons from Trump's win please?

[Outandinbout]

And other things, like Brexit, the disaster that was Jeremy Corbyn and his campaign.

Whilst there will be multi-factorial reasons for the way all these votes went, one of the reason, imo, is that far too many people on the left think anyone who disagrees with them is thick and racist. Do you remember that mock advert for Labour during JCs campaign? ' You are thick and racist - Vote Labour!'. That raised laughs because it resonated with how people felt about the Left.

Just stop being so bloody certain you are right and everyone else is wrong and start bloody listening to people who voted the way you don't want them to. Figure out why that is. Realise they actually have some legitimate concerns. Find ways to address these.

Because, and I can't believe I actually have to point this out, insulting people is not the way to win them over. Addressing their concerns is.

Because its not smart to sit there smugly thinking you are always right, even when voters are repeatedly disagreeing with you. It feels nice to think that, yes. But all that means is that you lack the courage to move yourself out of your psychological comfort zone. Its lazy, not smart. And it shows a distinct lack of intellectual curiosity.

I'm pretty pissed at Trump winning as I support Ukraine. I think the Left in America needs to look pretty hard at itself as to why a candidate such as Trump has won. And the left in the UK has lessons to learn too.

Because people lie?

Double posted!

Absolutely spot on.

If people are willing to vote and support Donald fucking Trump over you, you're doing something really wrong.

The super rich take most and leave the rest fighting over scraps

It doesn't matter which side of the swingometer you are on until there is a worldwide addressing of this nothing will change. The goalposts just get moved aroubd the exact same playing field.

The media want people squabbling over a person with penis in a dress, it keeps people occupied.

There are dangerous philosophies being circulated because no one holds spreaders of falsehoods to account.

Having an unregulated information highway where no matter whom you are you can find a lower scapegoat for all your woes and failings is a disaster.

There can, at present, be no rational debate.

Perhaps, if you start a conversation and those involved are open to having their minds changed, so you agree to this possibility beforehand, on all sides, then maybe things can progress. But who nowadays does change their mind or is even open to doing so?

You really need to read Mindfuck to understand why Brexit happened.

And when the winner is the best liar and manipulator, there is no such thing as real democracy.

I agree with you. I've said the same on here so many times since Gordon Brown's 'just some bigoted woman' comment. I feel like bloody Cassandra at this point.

100% agree.

Dismissing people as stupid poorly educated, racists, misogynistic etc when they hold differing views gets us and politics nowhere.

People just stay quite, don't share their views publicly, but make their position clear in the voting booth.

I don’t know much about her but I do know she’s not the Labour leader or even in the shadow cabinet as far as I know.

Abouth the polls being so wrong -
The thing is we have created countries where people are vilified for having a view and it's become acceptable for people and parties of the opposite view to make personal attacks on them, calling them Nazis, racists, wet lettuces etc.
Few people can have a reasonable conversation about their political views now, so they all just keep quiet then vote how they want to , in secret.
This is on both sides

Do you know that she hasn't lost the whip for supporting the view that the Conservative leader a white supremacist in blackface?

I'm not sure the left have a way to deal with immigration that won't end up going through a vote to the right at some point for someone to deal with it. It goes up until the voters say enough

Agree on women only spaces too, it wouldn't decide an election but tends get worse with the left, the US may lead on reversing on that

Then the idea of the establishment in the US didn't help the Democrats

I agree. The Left consistently 'punch down'. I remember during Brexit being so offended by being termed 'elite' etc by the likes of Farage. But actually, I am 'elite' in the sense of being highly-educated and wealthy. So on the whole he was representing the views of those who felt powerless against people like me.
But the 'working class' constantly being told they're thick by the Left - which on the whole is pretty 'elite' - is totally different. They're punching down and it's not a good look.
America is lost though anyway. Fundamentally it's run by corporations and billionaires. Just as much for the Dems as the Republicans. And those corporations and billionaires, however much they claim to be Dem or wave rainbow flags, are rampantly capitalist and their very existence is totally at odds with anything 'Left'.

Yes that election. The one he decisively lost.

Also as a brown woman, can everyone stop with the coconut/race traitor shit directed at people like Badenoch. Argue against policies, arguing that the whole thing is wrong because black women are allowed to have certain political views looks really weak, stupid and racist to most normal people.

The comparison is that men raping women is not always the block to their success, popularity or career that one might like to think it is. And that is not a left or right wing issue. As Polanski showed, plenty of left voting people came out in his support.

She's a black woman she's allowed to say that . Black people are allowed that conversation also Guido harris Boris Johnson advisor on radio stated that kemi can say stuff that wrong can't so if it's good enough for her it's good enough for Dawn

Dawn is a black woman she can say that it's not racist from her

I read somewhere that Kamala admitted that one of her weaknesses was that she’s not good at quick answers to hard questions. Which is a big problem for a politician.

I absolutely agree op

She's allowed to say that? Nobody should say that. It's a disgrace. You'd think that they would have stopped this nonsense after Rupa Huq called Kwarteng 'superficially black'.

This idea that people owe you a political perspective because of their race is absolutely corrupt.

I think American leftists probably need to stop focusing on superficial identity politics and moral grandstanding and instead on developing concrete policies that actually help people.

But I'm not sure the UK left has that much to learn. Labour, and indeed the other letwing parties, seem much more focused on actually practically making things better than the Democrats do (and this was the case even under Corbyn). And the overall political environment is completely different. Trump has basically become a messiah figure to a pseudo-Christian nationalist cult, but people in the UK don't tend to think in messianic or nationalist terms to the same degree whilst these are long-standing features of American culture. In the US even moderates would rather vote for a moral monster than vote for a black woman; in the UK a black female immigrant has just been selected as leader of the right-wing party.

Trump achieved a remarkable victory. The biggest comeback in history, his age wasnt in his favour, being shot at and yet - he won!

The left need to look very very carefully at themselves. Harris was awful, seemed massively out of her depth and keeping Biden on for so long made them look deluded and out of touch. I think voting for Trump has shown that Americans want a massive change.

Would I have voted for him? Not sure but probably.

The problem to your post is this? I have been watching so much on YouTube. I have even watched where they have Democrat. Voters argue against republican voters.One side is considerably able to put a better argument than the other side. Democrats are able to say better argument, they will give facts. They will give evidence yet. It doesn't matter to the Republicans, because they live in a world of conspiracy theories, emotions and basically they live in a Non truth world. So how are you meant to argue with people and debate them and show them evidence when it doesn't matter what evidence you show them, they don't believe it, they don't believe it's accurate. All the fact checking in the world, so then people are frustrated.People say, well, that must mean they are stupid.
The fact remains that, of course, not everybody is, but if you try arguing with these people with actual legitimate evidence, they do not like it and I see it in this country, I see the propaganda of the right wing press that has influenced so many people against their own interest.
You even have people on this group telling people like me myself, who is a poor white working class person in the north, living in a s* hole. Quite happy to say that telling me that I should be frustrated at immigrants. No, because I realise that actually, the people at the top have made us all divided. And they want you to think that you give them evidence to suggest that actually it's not like that.They don't like that, because that doesnt appeal to them. So then you are left with nothing else, but to say, well, obviously is stupid, because that's how it feels it's very frustrating

Hmm I don't think Stärmer is listening

This is where I went at 5am when I woke up and saw where it was heading.

20 minute panic about world war and climate change, deeply regretted having a child because of what he'll have to live through, then decided there's nothing I can do, what will be will be, and now I'm just ignoring the news and pretending it's not happening. The existential dread is right there behind my shoulder.