People of the left, can we learn some lessons from Trump's win please?

[Outandinbout]

And other things, like Brexit, the disaster that was Jeremy Corbyn and his campaign.

Whilst there will be multi-factorial reasons for the way all these votes went, one of the reason, imo, is that far too many people on the left think anyone who disagrees with them is thick and racist. Do you remember that mock advert for Labour during JCs campaign? ' You are thick and racist - Vote Labour!'. That raised laughs because it resonated with how people felt about the Left.

Just stop being so bloody certain you are right and everyone else is wrong and start bloody listening to people who voted the way you don't want them to. Figure out why that is. Realise they actually have some legitimate concerns. Find ways to address these.

Because, and I can't believe I actually have to point this out, insulting people is not the way to win them over. Addressing their concerns is.

Because its not smart to sit there smugly thinking you are always right, even when voters are repeatedly disagreeing with you. It feels nice to think that, yes. But all that means is that you lack the courage to move yourself out of your psychological comfort zone. Its lazy, not smart. And it shows a distinct lack of intellectual curiosity.

I'm pretty pissed at Trump winning as I support Ukraine. I think the Left in America needs to look pretty hard at itself as to why a candidate such as Trump has won. And the left in the UK has lessons to learn too.

Yes this is exactly my point!

When Trump went for the candidancy again I thought, ' nah, he'll not get it'. Then when he got it I thought, ' Nah no way will he be voted President again.' Then when the polls showed neck a neck I thought, ' Hang on, there is obviously something I am missing here.'

When someone as manifestly awful as Trump is so popular and becomes President, again, you really do need to exercise some genuine intellectual curiosity as to why this is happening, rather than just throwing out mindless insults because that makes you feel better ( though will open the door to Vance becoming President, which will not make you feel better)..

Refer you to the race traitor coconut thing. It is only ever levelled at brown and black people.

It’s used by people who are often lazy and/or stupid. It is basically saying I can’t argue with you so instead I will paint you are a stooge, a betrayer, white wannabe.

It’s race gatekeeping. Plus it’s ignorant, my country of origin has everything from communists to ethno-nationalists. The idea that brown and black people should only have one type of politics will be news to all those people out there in the world.

I'd guess they underestimated the impact of the single issue vote - immigration, abortion, gender idealogy, racism, misogyny etc.

Ironically women's rights splitting it between abortion rights and women's rights not including men probably made it harder.

As much as many MNs wanted Harris to win, doubt many truly believed she would. I only had a tiny hope she even could.

Existential dread is a marvellous tool to stop people acting only in their own immediate self interest, all religions use it, the democrats tried to use it.

The world didn't end last time Trump was in despite COVID, but the peppers were a bit smugger.

Not her necessarily, but her party. Biden is not all there mentally. I would have a hard time trusting a party or VP that allowed this shocking situation to continue for 4 years. Also, from media coverage, the main thing that KH had going for her was that she was not trump. I didn’t see any positive reasons - this is a cursory look, not a detailed analysis. But it’s enough.

The working classes used to have more stability and status in society. Secure blue collar jobs etc. This has been eroded over time and it’s easier to blame immigrants than the politicians of various parties over the years who put the policies in place that led to what we have today. Throw some racism and sexism into the mix and you have a trump victory.

I agree. I wouldn’t have voted for him or Harris but I fear the left will just keep saying all that voted for him are thick/stupid etc without digging deeper to wonder why he’s won.

Thank you, exactly.

Plus, peoples interests don’t always align. Take asian cohorts, there is a vast difference between Indian and Pakistani cohorts in terms of education, rates of female participation in the workforce, socio-economic circumstances etc. It would be very surprising is they all voted in the same way. Plus they just don’t have to.

But if people think its fine to insult people thats fine, it just puts normal people off your party and people quietly go away and vote exactly how they want anyway.

Please, the peppers should never be smug, they only have four days in them, tops. Give me an onion anyday.

Oh perhaps not insulted peoples intelligence and claim Biden was absolutely fine and capable of running. Perhaps not allowed males In female prisons and sports etc.

Yup. The 2017 Corbyn campaign was by no means a "disaster"- Corbyn did far better than predicted, and came within a whisker of winning the election.

Our current sense of what is politically achievable has been shaped by relentless right-wing propaganda funded by millionaires. Fox News, the Mail, the Telegraph, endless social media campaigns and echo chambers. People are not receiving impartial information about important issues.

How can you accuse the left of not being in touch with reality when it's the right that seems to deny the concrete scientific evidence about climate change?

I agree.
Trump certainly mocks and abuses the left.
Why does he get a free pass but the left have to be perfect?
The left have to say they disagree with the right as that's politics.
Then people come along and say "oh I only voted right because the left are meeeaan".
People need to own their vote. If someone votes for a racist criminal rapist - that's on them.
Let them find out what it means!

No she isn't.

The left completely ignores all of history and the scientific consensus when it comes to two sexes. And is willing to allow rapists in women's prisons, and harmful puberty blockers to be given to children

The left can do whatever they want but if they want to win elections then it seems that calling voters thick/ racist/ garbage isn't a winning tactic, is it?

@GargoylesofBeelzebub "Oh perhaps not insulted peoples intelligence and claim Biden was absolutely fine and capable of running. Perhaps not allowed males In female prisons and sports etc."
I see that. Particularly the Biden thing. But I'm gender critical-and I just can't get anyone thinking that is more important than access to abortion and contraception.

The problem to your post is this? I have been watching so much on YouTube. I have even watched where they have Democrat. Voters argue against republican voters.One side is considerably able to put a better argument than the other side. Democrats are able to say better argument, they will give facts. They will give evidence yet. It doesn't matter to the Republicans, because they live in a world of conspiracy theories, emotions and basically they live in a Non truth world. So how are you meant to argue with people and debate them and show them evidence when it doesn't matter what evidence you show them, they don't believe it, they don't believe it's accurate. All the fact checking in the world, so then people are frustrated.People say, well, that must mean they are stupid.
The fact remains that, of course, not everybody is, but if you try arguing with these people with actual legitimate evidence, they do not like it and I see it in this country, I see the propaganda of the right wing press that has influenced so many people against their own interest.
You even have people on this group telling people like me myself, who is a poor white working class person in the north, living in a s* hole. Quite happy to say that telling me that I should be frustrated at immigrants. No, because I realise that actually, the people at the top have made us all divided. And they want you to think that you give them evidence to suggest that actually it's not like that.They don't like that, because that doesnt appeal to them. So then you are left with nothing else, but to say, well, obviously is stupid, because that's how it feels it's very frustrating

@ByMerryKoala "The left can do whatever they want but if they want to win elections then it seems that calling voters thick/ racist/ garbage isn't a winning tactic, is it?"

Well, it seems to have worked for the right....

Butler is one of the Hard Left Labour MP's who are exactly what the OP is talking about. Labour generally have ditched most of them but she is so dim and does this so often she is easy to ignore. There are far fewer of them than they were in the Corbyn days but they and their activists are still there. They are more of an opposition than the Tories to the Labour government.

I'm not sure why people keep saying the left won't look at themselves to examine why Trump won, i see plenty of discussion of it in left leaning media, and I do hear 'people feel talked down to' mentioned. It's just that normally the 'people feel talked down to' is often coupled with discussion on why people in right wing circles, when faced with facts that counter their argument or asked to provide evidence, deflect/ignore. (To be 100% clear, I am not saying the left don't ever do this, but its very noticeable in right wing circles and understanding why this is is imperative)

So you're not a big fan of striving for equality then? Some people are more equal than others.

Amen exactly what I said above one side uses logic and facts the other side mot so much and lies shit load

I am a fan of if a black woman uses evidence as to why she thinks kemi is thos or that to be allowed to do that and be challenged by kemi as another black woman. There is not a prob with that white people saying she can't say that are missing the mark

An example of just how the left don't get it

Oh we do get it it's you that don't get it. It's not for me as a while woman to say Dawn is wrong as that's a conversation maybe black people should have