Hands Across The Water - Trump thread #135

[Spandauer]

There's only one floating pile of garbage in this story and it lives in Mar a Lago.

To Kamala Harris and all the other Democratic candidates on the ballot - May your courage, determination and hard work bring you the success you deserve. ❤️
To Donald (Jessica) Trump - May you get everything you deserve... and then some.

Community Notice
This won't be the last thread in this bigly nightmare and these threads may fly by over the next week so anyone who is up for continuing them please feel free to do so as I may not be awake all the time!

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5164974-whats-true-pussycat-trump-thread-134?page=10

Yes, of course you can. Equally, I can point out that it's made this long-running thread less pleasant.

You don't have to care, but I can express myself nonetheless (and for what it's worth, it wasn't actually aimed at you).

@Wallaw - I feel your pain but the truth is that the Dems will need to work out their strategy to win voters back.

As Kamala said - need to keep fighting.

You should perhaps listen to the The Rest Is Politics, particularly Mooch on these issues. He says they mattered to voters, particularly to swing voters.

I think this is true. Swing voters aren’t as likely to be swayed on the big issues, otherwise they wouldn’t be swing voters. They’re more likely to be swayed by things they understand, that may impact them personally, and that they may think are bonkers, like transgender issues.
Abortion itself is a difficult issue politically, because many women are opposed to abortion, for a variety of reasons. Rachel Maddow was correct in framing it as a reproductive health care issue, and perhaps the Democrats might have done better with a more nuanced approach.

As an overseas US voter I wanted my number counted in the popular vote.
I am lucky enough to hail from a state with a decent record on women's rights and ethnic minority rights.
I am well aware that many states have poor records on both.

In the run up to the vote I knew I could never vote for Trump
(New York / economics / lies / criminality)
but I struggled to vote for Harris
(women's rights and spaces)

Clearly many people felt unable to vote Democrat in 2024 who felt able to in 2020
Was it sexism, was it racism, was it gender ideology ?
We do not know yet.
But the Democrats will have to work out what - and quickly
to get organised enough to hold Trump to account each and every day until November 2028 when they will hopefully have the CORRECT candidate,

Well I think it would be lovely if the Democrats hadn't ignored and shouted down left leaning women and listened to concerns on this issue.

What you are seeking is an echo chamber which won't look at the reasons why the Democrats lost preferring to always blame the opposition.

And as @Ereshkigalangcleg pointed out, we can post where we like unless Free Speech isn't really your thing, that is another thing that potential Democrat voters weren't happy with. Cancel culture. Only wanting to hear opinions that align with your own.

But the Democrats will have to work out what - and quickly
to get organised enough to hold Trump to account each and every day until November 2028 when they will hopefully have the CORRECT candidate,

One thing that intrigues me about the US system is that unlike the UK system, there is no de facto individual who leads an opposition. You have your minority leaders in the house and the senate, yes. But no one to challenge the president.

Maybe that's a hallmark of all republics ? Or just the version the founding fathers cobbled (a word that seems appropriate) together ? I know they had to have a few fudges to permit slavery in a land of the free born.

Yes, but the truth is, it's too soon. The best political strategists in the country haven't yet been able to unravel what's happened and why. Everyone has their own hobbyhorse idea. At this point, they're only theories by randoms on the internet (mine included), and I'm tired of having people doing the online equivalent of shouting this one in my face.

I don't feel the need to go into the feminism forum, where they're all in a fairly happy state of agreement and disrupt their threads with my opinions. It's their place, let them have at it. This one was ours. There are literally like 10 threads on the 'why' of the election outcome for those that want to argue rather than agree.

I literally said anyone can post anything they want. I agree. I want an echo chamber on this particular thread, yup. That's what I came here for. To commiserate with like-minded people.

I can't cancel you any more than anyone can cancel all these people shrieking all over the place - on their podcasts, on their right wing media platforms, on their radio shows, in their newspaper columns - about the left cancelling them.

Doesn't mean I have to want to listen to you shrieking the same thing over and over again on every thread.

When Biden was appointed as candidate, wasn't there a feeling that he would be a one term president, just to steady the ship?

I know he wasn't the preferred one on these threads

Yes, he was. And, no, he wasn't mine, but he actually ended up being a very good president, to my surprise. I do think he should have stuck to the one-term idea.

@Wallaw

Your use of the word shrieking when it comes to women speaking out about matters that impact women and children speaks volumes.

@Wallaw You know as well as I do that many women had a foul choice in front of them.

Republican Party lead by a rapist wanting to limit abortion / healthcare / schooling / safety nets and utterly deluded economic ideas

Democrat Party led by a woman nobody chose, deputy to a man many did not want to stand, tied to an ideology of privilege that ignores reality and who came up with no ideas of her own.

So 12 million people styed home.
The USA and the world need to live with that and hope things are not as bad as they might seem

I don't know if this has been shared before

"The Most Feared and Least Known Political Operative in America"

Who is Trump's newly appointed chief of staff?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/04/26/susie-wiles-trump-desantis-profile-00149654

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4980491-philippe-reines-ex-clinton-adviser-democrats-hostage-far-left-2024/

This is interesting from Reines with the interview here:

https://x.com/kasie/status/1854872083836063810

He points out that most democrats want immigration control, most democrats don't want men in womens' sport but are being held hostage by the 'far left' of the Democratic Party.

I agree. It was a severe miss-step for him to be put forward in the first place. There were other good Democrats out there and I don't think we would have been having this conversation if he hadnt tried for a second term.

The benefit of hindsight etc...

@BustingBaoBun
Hard agree
Buttigeig / Whitmer could have done the job much better

That's interesting. The first time I've ever clapped eyes on her or heard about her was Trump's meandering victory speech when he dragged her up to the mic. One thing I read this morning she intends to do is to shield Trump from the randoms, the family members, the celebs who all had Trump's ear and wandered in and out of the Oval Office giving their opinion.

Given that he tended to act on the last person he spoke to , I think that at least sounds a good idea.

I don't agree but as I've said, probably way too many times, I'm not on this thread to argue. Have a good night.

She needs to heed what happened to Sue Gray

Marina Hyde’s comments - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/08/donald-trump-democrats-republicans-forget-lessons-us-election

She made some good points on the TRIP broadcast - the GOP are far better organised that the Democratic Party in terms of long term strategy, be it policy based or whatever.

The Dems need to be identifying potential candidates years out and positioning them for presidential runs. Obama was identified as one to watch in the late 90s/early 00s with his run 8 years away. Since Obama it feels like they’ve just drifted along with an assumption that it will all work out in the end.

I’m nowhere near invested enough in US politics to know who the potential candidates might be, but as I’ve said earlier, my guess is that he (yes “he”) will be white, 40s/early 50s and from a swing state. But the Dems need to find him in the next year/18 months so that they can start raising his profile around Midterms so that he is a known quantity. The second Midterms are over the Presidential run starts, regardless of when the primaries are. Heck, let’s face it, the 2028 Presidential run started yesterday, so they’re already on the back foot!

Do any of our US MNers have ideas of possible candidates we can keep an eye on?

I know I’m guilty of hoping (wishing?) the grown ups can keep Trump in check. I know I need to be more realistic!

@CaveMum
Buttigeig / Whitmer / Shapiro
(ie who they should have picked from this time)

I can’t see Whitmer being the nominee, they won’t pick a woman again for a long time.

Buttigeig - I can’t see America voting for a gay president. I know they’ve already had one, but not an out one!

Shapiro I could see, I did see some people say that he wasn’t picked for VP because he there was a chance he’d outshine Harris. Also speculation he’d have turned it down knowing if he’d taken it and the election was lost he’d be forever tainted.

I’m more thinking is there a Congressman, or a Mayor of a large city out there, a bit of an unknown right now but someone with The Right Stuff?

Yes, that is just what I was thinking, @Wallaw. There are plenty of other Trump/Brexit praising threads on here that people who love their Fascist idols can go and agree with each other on. Why do they have to come over here and get combative with those of us who are feeling very sad about the clear demise of democracy, and in particular, of women's rights, and the rights of people who are not white men, that Trump's re-election is ushering in? There's plenty of room for parallel threads to run on here - but of course, this deliberate unpleasant confrontationalism and jeering, even though they've now won, and got what they wanted, is a characteristic of MAGAs and Brexiteers, so why am I surprised?

Well thats all very lovely @Jaichangecentfoisdenom but I"m not a Trump supporter nor a fascist.

Nor am I the one doing the name calling or jeering.

So which women's rights are the Democrats protecting? When any man can identify into womanhood sexism no longer exists, there can be no 'women's rights' because women don't exist as a class that can be protected in law. But you know that and don't care, huh?

I want there to be a viable option for women and I despair of the fact that the Democrats didn't provide one and handed an open goal to the 'pussy grabbing' misogynist Trump.