Hands Across The Water - Trump thread #135

[Spandauer]

There's only one floating pile of garbage in this story and it lives in Mar a Lago.

To Kamala Harris and all the other Democratic candidates on the ballot - May your courage, determination and hard work bring you the success you deserve. ❤️
To Donald (Jessica) Trump - May you get everything you deserve... and then some.

Community Notice
This won't be the last thread in this bigly nightmare and these threads may fly by over the next week so anyone who is up for continuing them please feel free to do so as I may not be awake all the time!

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5164974-whats-true-pussycat-trump-thread-134?page=10

Yes and let's not forget how often he was on the gulf course and how much he used his properties, he will be milking America for all it's worth, just like he did last time

We should start hearing about appointments soon, so hopefully there are some grown ups in the major place. Mooch said last night he expected Marco Rubio to get Secretary of State.

Do we really think Musk will take up a proper position, rather than a fluffy consulting post? Would he really walk away from running SpaceX, etc for 4 years? I’m sure he doesn’t do much in the way of day to day running but surely he’d have to divest his interests on taking up a Government job?

I don't think Musk will take on a formal cabinet position as that would mean operating to someone else's agenda (I mean calendar not policy). He'll be a consultant.
Also he won't want scrutiny re conflict of interest.

Kennedy on health..... Yikes!

But this is the question that needs answering and acting upon.

But I don't understand how people can vote for someone who inspired an insurrection, paid off a porn star, is a convicted felon, has utter contempt for women, says horribly racist things, can't distinguish the truth from a lie, is a failed businessmen who doesn't pay his bills, is OK with women bleeding to death in hospital parking lots, was a good friend of Jeffrey Epstein, loves Kim Jong Un and is Putin's puppet.

Until the Democrats are prepared to engage with the people and be respectful to the responses, Trump is being offered an open goal.

Because the fact is that LOTS of people did prefer him over the Democrats offering. He wouldn't have had such a fast and comprehensive win if they didn't.

Whatever your personal take over the women's rights/ trans issue, it seems to me that plenty of people found being told that wanting their daughters to have fair sport and children to be protected from medical transition made them bigots felt undemocratic. There is lots of talk about how the Republicans ruined Roe v Wade but no talk about how Levine was able to act to remove age limits on surgery that removes children's healthy body parts (many of those children being gay or autistic).

The same applies to other issues.

I just feel that society is now so entrenched in being right or wrong that it is not only that we are not prepared to listen to opinions that we don't share we feel those opinions should be cancelled. So you have insurrection on one side and no freedom of speech on the other. Two sides of the same (anti democratic) coin.

I am not by any means a Trump supporter but I can see how under those circumstances he was able to win, despite all of the dreadful things he has done and will do.

Presuming you’re in the US. These types of exchanges help someone like me in the UK understand why people some may have voted for Trump, as nuts as it seems to me.

The insults and name calling on some of these threads is so depressing and if it is a small reflection of what is happening now in the US among neighbours, family, friends, colleagues then I feel for you all.

Whether you like her or not I think that Kamala’s message of unity was sincere. Disagree all you want but show each other some respect and civility.

I know not everyone here is a fan, and I keep banging on about it, but last night's final TRIP broadcast is worth watching as they discuss the reasons why Trump won and Harris lost. Rory is not there as he had to fly back to the UK but Alastair, Mooch, Marina and Dominic (who has been an absolute star, but I love TRI History already!) talk things through.

Alastair still doesn't get the "Woke" pushback (but then he never did) and Mooch is adamant that it was a major factor for a lot of voters.

The broadcast is about an hour and a half long so worth it if you have the time. They may well clip it up for a podcast edition too if you'd rather listen.

No I'm in the UK but this issue is increasingly being seen across democracies with a tendency being that the left is engaging with a narrative that if you don't agree with them then you are simply wrong or stupid or right wing etc. Cancel culture is increasingly an issue. You don't tend to see that so much from the right, although, in the case of Trump you see a far more dangerous move away from democracy.

They are then deeply shocked at the outcome of election results because they haven't listened to the other side.

The preference being to believe people are right wing rather than to engage with the fact that reasonable people might have a different opinion than actually hearing it out.

We had it here, to a degree, with the Brexit vote.

And the media is part of the problem because it is increasingly partisan. What you end up with is a whole lot of confirmation bias.

It all leads to a complete inability to see things from an alternative perspective.

I haven't listened to it yet but it's on my 'to do' list for today.

But I listened to all of the election night ones. I agree with you though. Mooch gets it because he's seen both sides.

I was also taken by how personally Rory seemed to take the outcome, like Alastair i felt he was struggling with the notion that anyone could perceive the democrats as undemocratic (due to the freedom of speech issues). I find it very interesting that 2 political commentators are seemingly so partisan they can't understand voter motives.

It's not surprising really that Sandbrook also 'gets it'. From a historical lens you can see that these things happen in 'waves'

And they have clipped the election night ones down to 3 individual one hours as a podcast if anyone wants to listen to those ,

the pushback against the extreme woke left has happened in the uk general election as well.
and the european election
and the german local elections

the media don't seem to get it (yet) that the 'far right' didn't win votes as such, but that the 'woke left' lost votes. (and what the media describes as 'far right' is actually more centre right than far right)

Its like the "Tommy Robinson" marches in the UK

Not wanting Afghan men fast tracked into this country does NOT make me far right.
I've seen how they treat women in their own country.

Protection of women's sports and spaces and refuges is not a position of bigotry.

Posting this for interest.

In the lead-up to the U.S. election, the word fascism was used regularly and often to describe the now President-Elect Donald Trump - I did that myself quite a few times.

Is there a good reason for it?
Absolutely.

Was it untrue?
Nope.

Was it 100% accurate?
There’s where I think we’ve all gone wrong.

While Trump has been playing from the fascism playbook like he was reading from a recipe on how to bring about a dystopian nightmare, Trumpianism is not quite fascism. Not entirely, at least. It’s something modern, amorphous, opportunistic, and dangerously adaptable - a new kind of authoritarianism that’s developed in the social media age. Trump’s approach deserves its own label. And so, welcome to the lexicon: Trumpianism.

https://open.substack.com/pub/iratusursus/p/trumpianism-isnt-fascism-its-something?r=4ji4tf&utm_medium=ios

Xwitter link:
https://x.com/i_iratus/status/1854102725736149360?s=46&t=sQEeBsNjiTta_B_D1Qh6IQ

www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/republicans-celebrate-project-2025-trump-win-1235155322/

And this is it. He can proceed, unchecked. Project 2025.

And they don’t have to pretend anymore.

Yup, Project 2025 was always the plan

Headline from The Age (Melbourne, Australia)

@Spandauer during the TRIP broadcast (I know, I know) Dominic Sandbrook and Mooch had an argument about whether or not Trump is a fascist. Mooch argued he was, using examples, but Dominic (as a historian who has a pretty good idea of what makes someone a fascist or not) said he was not. He wasn't saying he isn't a highly unpleasant man with fascistic tendencies, but is he Mussolini? No.

On the Project 2025 front, there has been some pushback from the Trump campaign on how close they actually are to the authors. The Heritage Foundation have been pushing their ideals since the Reagan era and, by and large, have been pissing into the wind. There seemed to be an element of the Project 2025 team trying to ride on Trump's coattails and we all know that Donny doesn't like other people trying to take credit away from him.

Of course we will have to wait and see, and I may be totally wrong, but we are where we are and I can only hope that there are people in his team who are still serving out of a sense of duty to the Office and Country rather than the cult of Trump.

"woke left' 'the extreme woke left.'

woke woke fucking woke

Jesus. What a bloody shambles.

If anyone who says they are "anti-woke" is able actually to define "woke" as meaning anything in particular I'd be surprised. It is just the most recent version of "commie" or any other boo-word seized on by the masses to mean "people I have been told I don't like or I must fear."

The far left have failed to recognise how their drift over the last years has caused them to be perceived as autocratic. They hit the tipping point.

The fact that people can unironically describe the Democrats as 'far left' just goes to show how meaningless the terms 'left' and 'right' are now. By European standards, the US Democrats are right of centre.

I couldn't agree more! The far left of my youth (1970s) were anti-establishment, Che Guevara T-shirt wearing followers of Marx and Trotsky! Current Dems wouldn't know a Red Flag if they fell over it.

Anyone want to take a wager on JDV being dropped before January and being replaced with Don Jr?

This
I can't believe some people are suggesting the far left are in government anywhere. They are not. Most democratic countries have centrist governments which shift ever so slightly to the right or ever so slightly to the left. The majority are neo liberal capitalist societies. I am also sick of people using the term "woke" it is meaningless, it's this decades new word for political correctness it basically is a way of saying I don't feel the need to be respectful in how I speak or treat others and if you do your "woke", bullying othering dismissive language.

Who are you referring to when you say far left?

I totally agree with this. Dominic Sandbrook nailed it and I’ve seen a few other commentators speaking about how those of us who are interested in politics have failed to grasp how little the majority of people actually care. Bottom line is they vote for the person who they believe will improve their own personal circumstances and that’s it.

i think there is massive learning here for the new Labour Government and hope they give what has happened in America some serious thought.

I'm still here, all. I'm just going through a period of attitude adjustment. I need to replace my feeling of despair with a feeling of determination.

"Sí, se puede"

@Spandauer

Maybe those of us from the 70s need to get out and dust off our Guevara Tshirts. Although I have a feeling mine probably no longer fits!