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I’m scared now I’ve realised this

1000 replies

Pickandmixmood · 29/10/2024 11:00

I was thinking that the US public wouldn’t vote for Trump now that it is so apparent he is such a fascist. It’s terrifying to realise that they already know that and that is why they are going to vote for him.
I’m scared for the world.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
40
Livelovebehappy · 04/11/2024 07:32

Mumtobabyhavoc · 03/11/2024 22:33

Another one who labels Harris as not intelligent. Her resume is outstanding. There has been a lot of discussion analyzing the different ways in which women and particularly women of colour are attacked and lack of intelligence is one. You do realize it's a top Trumism, right?

Tbh, the history of her campaign for presidency in 2019 speaks for itself. She received less than 4% of the vote and dropped out. Her campaign was poorly planned, and a lot of people said she was out of her depth. That was the true reflection of her popularity. The difference now being that people are voting for her, not because their opinion of her has suddenly changed, but because their hatred for Trump is greater than their respect for her, which is a dangerous way of voting for someone. They should be careful what they wish for….

MargaretThursday · 04/11/2024 07:54

but because their hatred for Trump is greater than their respect for her, which is a dangerous way of voting for someone

And Trump won last time he did because a lot of people were voting against Hilary rather than for him.
I'd agree that it's dangerous. Did you disagree with it then?

But also here you get the same thing. People voting "tactically" because they want to get the Tories (or whoever) out rather than because they like the other party's policies. So you'll always get that.

WitchesButter · 04/11/2024 07:58

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G5000 · 04/11/2024 08:00

As someone on social media put it, if I'm offered a choice between shrimp pasta and being punched in the throat, I won't go 'Hmm but pasta is not my favourite food...'

Mumtobabyhavoc · 04/11/2024 08:22

It's not anti women to be supportive of transpeople.

NotBadConsidering · 04/11/2024 08:24

Mumtobabyhavoc · 04/11/2024 08:22

It's not anti women to be supportive of transpeople.

And it’s not anti-trans to be pro women’s sex-based rights.

lifeturnsonadime · 04/11/2024 08:58

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independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 11:50

Livelovebehappy · 04/11/2024 07:32

Tbh, the history of her campaign for presidency in 2019 speaks for itself. She received less than 4% of the vote and dropped out. Her campaign was poorly planned, and a lot of people said she was out of her depth. That was the true reflection of her popularity. The difference now being that people are voting for her, not because their opinion of her has suddenly changed, but because their hatred for Trump is greater than their respect for her, which is a dangerous way of voting for someone. They should be careful what they wish for….

That was completely different and if it ‘speaks for itself’ it doesn’t speak to the context of a presidential election in Autumn 2024 against DJ Trump. ‘Popularity’ is not a tangible, fixed, measurable quality and it is meaningless in the current context.

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 12:01

Deja321 · 03/11/2024 23:41

Because they're things I've heard him say myself. So you can tell me he hates all immigrants but that contradicts what I've heard him say.

When did he say those things?
Who here has said he hates all immigrants?

dishonesty and evasion as per usual

RobinEllacotStrike · 04/11/2024 12:06

And it’s not anti-trans to be pro women’s sex-based rights.

Well it kind of is - though of course it shouldn't be.

But the TRA agenda is "TWAW" and any deviation from that is seem as "anti-trans". This whole TRA movement has been framed as a direct & deliberate attack on womens rights and is entirely dependant on women going "sure we don;t need a womer for women, any many can be a woman, that's fine with us" - which is an utter nonsense.

So while most women, cetainly most feminists, are all for gender nonconformity and have traditionally supported the detachment of gender stereotypes from sex classes, TRA's have brought things full circle. Now, unless you AGREE that men become women by simply stating themselves to be women, then you are of course a bigot/terf/anti trans etc.

And the enlighted "be kind" lot jumped all over this - and it became embedded at the hear of Democratic party politics. After all, what would be the harm if we agree to the demands of a tiny proprtion of the population? And why do the group of humans that are 51% of the worlds population, and include the people that gave life and grew every single human that ever lived, why on earth do those bitches need a noun to describe their group?

Despite saying to these men, wear what you want, no one cares, that isn't enough. We must accept the full transformation from male to female by the utterance of mere words, and perhaps powerful magic like painted nails, or wearing lipstick. These visible changes aren't neccessary though as we must all believe any man who declares a trans status is actually a women - these declarations supposedly render their immutable male bodies and genitals meaningless and irrelevant, but the invisible and changable thoughts in their head are supposedly permanent, unchanging and evidence of actually being a woman.

This is why this battle starts and ends with the capture of womens language.

If the scenario was "I a man, who feels like a woman, and I am going to wear dresses etc" and he just got on with things there would be no issue with women at all. But in order to elevate things to a situation where so many people will believe this is an actual civil rights movement (to be clear it is NOT) then that victimhood must be elevated - so we have the mantra TWAW that MUST be complied with, we have the "most vulnerable", the manipulation of suicide statistics and suicidal ideation to manipulate others especially children and their parents etc. Gender stereotypes are now at the top of the pyramid, and if our gender stereotype feelings don't match our bodies, then it is now our bodies which must be changed (with drugs, surgeries, clothese etc). Rather than elimination gender sterotypes we have elevated them & reinstated them as the most profound indication of a persons sex.

Everything we have been dicusssing re "trans right" for years now all stems from the insistance that "TransWomen Are Women" and women saying "no mate, you're not".

Livelovebehappy · 04/11/2024 13:04

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 12:01

When did he say those things?
Who here has said he hates all immigrants?

dishonesty and evasion as per usual

He dislikes illegal ones, which is fair enough. A lot of migrants (legal ones) actually support Trumps stance on illegal immigration.

Deja321 · 04/11/2024 13:05

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 12:01

When did he say those things?
Who here has said he hates all immigrants?

dishonesty and evasion as per usual

So does he hate immigrants or not in your opinion? Because that is an accusation thrown at him.
I've listened to him speak at his rallies and say that legal immigration is good and that most immigrants are good people. He wants to keep the bad ones/criminals out. I don't think that's unreasonable. I also dont think its unreasonable for American citizens to want the numbers coming in to be controlled and manageable.

We can all take snippets of peoples speeches or conversations to make them look bad.
I don't have blind loyalty or hatred for any politician. I find the hatred people have for Trump and his supporters concerning and unfair.

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 13:59

Deja321 · 04/11/2024 13:05

So does he hate immigrants or not in your opinion? Because that is an accusation thrown at him.
I've listened to him speak at his rallies and say that legal immigration is good and that most immigrants are good people. He wants to keep the bad ones/criminals out. I don't think that's unreasonable. I also dont think its unreasonable for American citizens to want the numbers coming in to be controlled and manageable.

We can all take snippets of peoples speeches or conversations to make them look bad.
I don't have blind loyalty or hatred for any politician. I find the hatred people have for Trump and his supporters concerning and unfair.

'does he hate immigrants or not in your opinion?'
This is your formulation, not mine. I never said that and would never say that so I am not compelled to answer it. He has certainly spoken in extremely negative terms about certain groups of immigrants, both legal and illegal, and has frequently just used the term 'immigrants' in a wholly negative way without qualification of legal or illegal.

I don't have blind loyalty or hatred for any politician. I find the hatred people have for Trump and his supporters concerning and unfair.

Why are you using such emotive language about an election?
Not wanting to vote for Trump doesn't have to mean 'hating' him. People have to vote for one of two candidates, voting for one does not mean 'blind loyalty', not voting for the other doesn't mean 'hatred'. If you think it's 'unfair' of people to prefer to vote for one candidate rather than another, well so be it but that's the way elections work!

@Livelovebehappy

Trump has certainly spoken in extremely negative terms and told lies about legal immigrants, such as Haitians who are legally working in the USA, and his running mate has admitted that some statements are likely untrue but encourage people to sustain the lies.

For example, at the presidential debate on 10 September Trump said:
“In Springfield, they’re eating the dogs. The people that came in, they’re eating the cats,” Trump said. “They’re eating the pets of the people that live there.”

However, both local government and Springfield police* *stated there was no evidence for the claim - eg, a spokesperson for the city said:
“there have been no credible reports or specific claims of pets being harmed, injured or abused by individuals within the immigrant community.”
JD Vance posted on Twitter that it is “possible” that the “rumors” he has heard from local residents “will turn out to be false,” though he also encouraged people to “keep the cat memes flowing.”

G5000 · 04/11/2024 14:37

Personally I don't think he hates immigrants that much, as long as they can in some way benefit him. I mean his grandfather was immigrant, his mother was immigrant, Melania is an illegal immigrant (she was working on tourist visa, as has been reported. Plenty of reports that he was happy to employ illegal immigrants in his organisation.
But he takes full advantage in his campaign of the hatred many of his supporters have against immigrants. Full on scapegoating and stirring up hatred so he can promise that there's a magical solution to all their problems - just get rid of the 'bad hombres' and voila!

Deja321 · 04/11/2024 14:44

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 13:59

'does he hate immigrants or not in your opinion?'
This is your formulation, not mine. I never said that and would never say that so I am not compelled to answer it. He has certainly spoken in extremely negative terms about certain groups of immigrants, both legal and illegal, and has frequently just used the term 'immigrants' in a wholly negative way without qualification of legal or illegal.

I don't have blind loyalty or hatred for any politician. I find the hatred people have for Trump and his supporters concerning and unfair.

Why are you using such emotive language about an election?
Not wanting to vote for Trump doesn't have to mean 'hating' him. People have to vote for one of two candidates, voting for one does not mean 'blind loyalty', not voting for the other doesn't mean 'hatred'. If you think it's 'unfair' of people to prefer to vote for one candidate rather than another, well so be it but that's the way elections work!

@Livelovebehappy

Trump has certainly spoken in extremely negative terms and told lies about legal immigrants, such as Haitians who are legally working in the USA, and his running mate has admitted that some statements are likely untrue but encourage people to sustain the lies.

For example, at the presidential debate on 10 September Trump said:
“In Springfield, they’re eating the dogs. The people that came in, they’re eating the cats,” Trump said. “They’re eating the pets of the people that live there.”

However, both local government and Springfield police* *stated there was no evidence for the claim - eg, a spokesperson for the city said:
“there have been no credible reports or specific claims of pets being harmed, injured or abused by individuals within the immigrant community.”
JD Vance posted on Twitter that it is “possible” that the “rumors” he has heard from local residents “will turn out to be false,” though he also encouraged people to “keep the cat memes flowing.”

If you didn't say that then I'm not talking about you.
I don't think its unfair to vote for one candidate over another and i think you know that. Everyone should be free to vote as they see fit. I wish others could respect that.
I personally think there is alot of unnecessary hysteria and scaremongering.

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 15:54

Deja321 · 04/11/2024 14:44

If you didn't say that then I'm not talking about you.
I don't think its unfair to vote for one candidate over another and i think you know that. Everyone should be free to vote as they see fit. I wish others could respect that.
I personally think there is alot of unnecessary hysteria and scaremongering.

Do you personally think Trump and Vance's scaremongering about legal Haitian migrants is 'fair'?

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 15:55

Deja321 · 04/11/2024 14:44

If you didn't say that then I'm not talking about you.
I don't think its unfair to vote for one candidate over another and i think you know that. Everyone should be free to vote as they see fit. I wish others could respect that.
I personally think there is alot of unnecessary hysteria and scaremongering.

If you're not talking about me why did you direct your question at me?

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 16:00

Livelovebehappy · 04/11/2024 07:32

Tbh, the history of her campaign for presidency in 2019 speaks for itself. She received less than 4% of the vote and dropped out. Her campaign was poorly planned, and a lot of people said she was out of her depth. That was the true reflection of her popularity. The difference now being that people are voting for her, not because their opinion of her has suddenly changed, but because their hatred for Trump is greater than their respect for her, which is a dangerous way of voting for someone. They should be careful what they wish for….

How do you know their opinion of her hasn't changed?
Don't you think she's had more exposure and more experience since she was last running?
Don't you understand her candidacy was as the Democrats' nominee last time, not as president?
Don't you understanding that you're not actually addressing comparable scenarios?
How do you know 'their hatred for Trump is greater than their respect for her'?
Do you not think people actually feel that the danger of voting for Trump far outweighs other dangers?
Do you not understand they what they wish for is likely to be to have a president who is actually committed to public housing, funding education, better supports for healthcare and reproductive rights? Have you not seen the demographic of those voting for Harris in Iowa?

Deja321 · 04/11/2024 16:26

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 15:55

If you're not talking about me why did you direct your question at me?

Because you keep quoting me. I wasn't keeping track, just replying to whoever quoted me. I don't want to argue and go round in circles. We all have our views, I only commented as I think theres unnecessary exaggeration and scaremongering. My opinion. Let's just agree to disagree.

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 17:25

Deja321 · 04/11/2024 16:26

Because you keep quoting me. I wasn't keeping track, just replying to whoever quoted me. I don't want to argue and go round in circles. We all have our views, I only commented as I think theres unnecessary exaggeration and scaremongering. My opinion. Let's just agree to disagree.

You addressed your question directly to me though!
I don't know what we're disagreeing about - you made statements about 'hearing' or 'seeing' Trump saying or doing specific things and I asked for more details. You didn't provide any so 🤷🏾‍♀️

Notreat · 04/11/2024 17:27

KizzyDora · 29/10/2024 15:57

Surely people are voting for the party they feel has the best polices and not actually just for Trump?

No the USA is very different from the UK.
They are voting for Trump himself.
Why I have no idea!
I feel very sorry for normal Americans

Livelovebehappy · 04/11/2024 17:43

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 16:00

How do you know their opinion of her hasn't changed?
Don't you think she's had more exposure and more experience since she was last running?
Don't you understand her candidacy was as the Democrats' nominee last time, not as president?
Don't you understanding that you're not actually addressing comparable scenarios?
How do you know 'their hatred for Trump is greater than their respect for her'?
Do you not think people actually feel that the danger of voting for Trump far outweighs other dangers?
Do you not understand they what they wish for is likely to be to have a president who is actually committed to public housing, funding education, better supports for healthcare and reproductive rights? Have you not seen the demographic of those voting for Harris in Iowa?

Of course I know the decision was made by democrats to drop her, but they were voting for the person who they thought would get them over the line. And they clearly were confident she wasn’t going to. She’s clueless. Lacks the ability to say what she plans to do if she gets in, because she doesn’t know. She’s winging it. The democrats should be wiping the floor with Trump. He’s a showman, and any decent opponent would and should be pulling in the votes. That she’s just managing, so the polls say, to split the vote at the moment doesn’t bode well for America.

MissConductUS · 04/11/2024 18:14

Notreat · 04/11/2024 17:27

No the USA is very different from the UK.
They are voting for Trump himself.
Why I have no idea!
I feel very sorry for normal Americans

This is an oversimplification and not true across the board. People support politicians for many reasons, and policy agreement is one of them.

As I have said previously on this thread, some people find Trump odious but think that the country did better with his policies. The politicians and the policies are a package deal.

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 18:29

Livelovebehappy · 04/11/2024 17:43

Of course I know the decision was made by democrats to drop her, but they were voting for the person who they thought would get them over the line. And they clearly were confident she wasn’t going to. She’s clueless. Lacks the ability to say what she plans to do if she gets in, because she doesn’t know. She’s winging it. The democrats should be wiping the floor with Trump. He’s a showman, and any decent opponent would and should be pulling in the votes. That she’s just managing, so the polls say, to split the vote at the moment doesn’t bode well for America.

That was then, this is now. Not comparable. Who did they actually vote for as their candidate? Biden. Do you believe that means that he would still be the best candidate now?

She’s clueless. Lacks the ability to say what she plans to do if she gets in, because she doesn’t know.
What are you talking about? She has outlined her policies clearly.

The democrats should be wiping the floor with Trump
She's running an excellent campaign. She's pulling in votes - did you not see the Iowa poll?

Anyway, we should know what way it's going by Wednesday

independencefreedom · 04/11/2024 18:30

Notreat · 04/11/2024 17:27

No the USA is very different from the UK.
They are voting for Trump himself.
Why I have no idea!
I feel very sorry for normal Americans

Some people would just always vote Republican, no matter what

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