SIL want to come to concerts etc with us but seems to expect us to treat her?

[Bollyhob]

My SIL who I do like is single and in her 40s. She works, has her own flat and is always busy with friends, dating etc.

She loves to be out and about and so quite often if she asks what me and DH (her brother) are up to going to see a film, for a meal, to see a band or a play she'll say oh I fancy that, room for one more?

I don't mind her coming at all but what does annoy me is that their is always this expectation that it will be our treat which makes it awkward when it comes time to pay for things, she's definitely always hanging back in the hope that me and my dh will pick up the bill and is quite put out if asked to pay for her meal, ticket etc. I think it could be that my DH will usually pay for things when we are out so perhaps she feels like she's paying and I'm being "treated" but that money comes out of mine and DHs joint account so I am paying my share!

I got fed up with it and so have started just booking things and keeping quiet about them but she's now gotten upset about that saying she'd have loved ro see that show and we should have invited her. She can be touchy and so I was hoping to avoid a scene with her but will probably just have to say that she can't keep expecting us to pay for her unless it's her birthday or something.

I wonder if she does with her other friends or of its just us, I'm sure it isn't normal behaviour.

Have a conversation with her. Tell her she's welcome if she pays upfront.

Honestly, I'm a terrible people pleaser, but I think that by now, even I would have said:
'I'm sorry, we didn't invite you because we can't afford to keep paying for your ticket and your meal. If you want to start paying for yourself, you're very welcome to join us'

Get her to pay they when she tries to present the whole bill, just send her the money for 2/3 of it. Don't ask, don't make a big deal of doing it, just send the money to the bank and keep quiet.

You - "We're thinking of going to see X."
Her - "Oh, I'd love to come to that with you."
You - "The tickets cost ££ so transfer it over, and we'll buy one for you as well."

Weeks later.....

Her - "I'm really looking forward to seeing X."
You - "Oh. Did you want to come then? You didn't send us the money and we've bought our tickets now."

I agree with you - the running off to MIL would have made me avoid her like the plague. My sil's have both behaved appallingly in the past - I am perfectly friendly with them but spend more time than is absolutely necessary not a chance! I don't make a fuss - but people behaving badly lose my attention very quickly.

You don't have to tell her where you're going. Ever.

If she knows and asks to tag along, or whinges when she hears where you've been, say this is date night as you don't get a lot of time together. Have a LOT of date nights.

If she persists, send her a link to the ticket sales site to book herself and leave it at that.

Tell your husband you're starting to resent this - she is treating you like the bank of Daddy and Mummy and it's got to stop.

She appears to be either a sponging CF or infantilised. Neither is good for her, let alone you.

The thing is she has no issues with not paying her way and even expecting her share to be transferred over if she has pre paid.

Normal people don't behave like this as it's taking the piss and quite rightly upsetting you.

Therefore, you simply have to be as brazen going forward in stamping this out as she has been this brazen to date in her expectations.

Your DH simply has to address this in a straightforward way of saying that if she wants to join you she needs to pay her share and ask for the money up front and get into this new pattern of behaviour. If it doesn't work then she forgoes these outings. Because she is either going to be upset or you and your DH are. So who do you want it to be?

I agree with posters that say your DH should ask her for her share.

This scenario reminds me a little of my MIL and her partner. We always footed the bill for breakfast and not once did they pay or even attempt to pay, and this went on for years. Luckily we only visited occasionally.

I tried to talk to DH about it a few times and because it was his mum he didn’t want to change anything. The good news is we have young DC now and we don’t go out to breakfast anymore.

Just don’t invite her. If(when) she whinges about not being invited, just keep telling her it was date night etc.

Or if she invites herself ahead of the time, tell her the price and ask her for the money and then you’ll book. Or if you’ve already booked, tell her she’ll need
to sort her own ticket and you’ll see her there.

she’s definitely either a CF or entitled, but from what you’ve said about MIL, I’m leaning towards entitled and spoilt!

Im the baby of the family by a long stretch (15 years!), but as an adult my siblings haven’t treated me etc. We all pay our own way as that’s what grown ups do. We might pay for an activity as a Christmas/birthday present, but not for a general night out. As soon as we’re asked about doing something together, I transfer the money across right away.

You can be polite and direct with her. "You're welcome to come if you're happy to split the cost 3 ways". How could any reasonable person argue against that?

Perfect phrase.

No. She doesn't have to pack it in because the OP is 'pulling in her horns', she has to pack it in because she's taking the piss.
The OP and DH's finances are none of her business and they have no need to share information about them.
No excuses/lies are needed.

My auntie and sister are a bit like this. They say it’s more expensive to be single, and that life as a couple is cheaper as you can split bills etc by two so they should pay less when it comes to meals out etc. it’s a flawed approach as it doesn’t take into account if both of the couple work, how much everyone earns/ what tax bracket theyre in, student loans, mortgages etc. plus it does cost more to keep two adults alive, healthy and well than 1 but there’s no reasoning with them.

you just need to get everyone to pay their own way - agree with pp about getting SIL to pay upfront for tickets etc. perhaps for birthdays you might treat her, or if you and DH get a discount (e.g BOGOF cinema tickets) you split the whole cost of 3 tickets between all of you so you are all paying the same but she still gets a bit of a discount.
unfortunately money does create tensions in relationships so you’re best just everyone paying their way and then everyone knows where they stand.

I guess the problem with this is that the expectation is that OP and her DH should treat the sister and the only reason why they aren’t is because they are skint. The expectation for them to pay will still be there in the future, and if OP or her DH get a promotion or if they are perceived to be splashing the cash and are in the money again then sister will expect to be paid for again. Plus I think it gives opportunity for sister to comment on OPs finances and cast judgement on how they spend their money ‘oh you’re off out again this week are you? I thought you couldn’t afford?’ Or ‘ooh that’s an expensive top - how did you afford that when you’re saving?’.

I have a leeching sister so do understand. It's surprisingly hard to say no, so me and my brother end up covering loads of costs for her. She pulls the 'struggling single mother' card - I am a single mum too but apparently I've no idea how hard she works and how difficult it is for her. Grrr! She's also the Golden Child with years of form for this, enabled by our mum, who'd love nothing more than for my brother and myself to be completely financially responsible for her. Families eh? Anyway, good luck with prising the leech off, at least to some extent!

Wow can I come??!!

I don’t understand how your DH hasn’t at any point said “ok, the meal is £150 total, but we got your ticket and that was £50 so if you pay £100 and we pay £50 now, then we are all square at £100 each in total”

Or whatever!

Given what you've said about his mother rushing in to bully the pair of you back into place when you tried to say no before, I think you're dealing with a more complicated family dynamic TBH, OP, and it may well predate your relationship with your husband. She may well view you as the interloper here, not herself, because after all her relationship with him came first.

It's not a normal or healthy dynamic and there will be resistance if you change it. That doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't change it, but it does mean that you will need your DH fully on board and to be prepared for tantrums from SIL and MIL if/when you put a stop to funding this part of SIL's social life. If you can ride it out, the tantrums will stop, but it may take a while and it will alter the family dynamic. You might well find that SIL isn't interested in spending time with you like she does now and that DH is put under a lot of pressure to stop being so mean.

She's not refusing to pay because she doesn't realise, she's refusing to pay because she doesn't see why she should have to. It's your DH's job as far as she's concerned. But she can believe that all she likes, it doesn't mean that he has to pay if he doesn't want to.

She's counting on the fact that the threat of a tantrum will keep him paying out and so far it has worked.

Next time she huffs because you went without her, say ‘we couldn’t afford to pay for you as well.’ I think she’ll be far less keen to go with you if she has to pay for herself, anyway.

Definitely address this now. I have a very enabled Mil and now she's got dementia. It's been made far worse by the lack of historic conversations where bad behaviour was ignored, rather than dealt with and has ended up with her being helpless, literally.

People don't change as they get older, they get more so...

I'm sure she feels like she's special to him because he spoils her/pays for her and the emotional connection she places on this situation will make her reaction when you tackle this all the stronger - because for her it's like her brother saying you're not the special one anymore, dw is.

I know it’s been said but just to say I agree - something you need to book all at once to sit together - “we’ll book tickets tomorrow eve, it costs £x, send us the money but 5pm tomorrow if you’d like us to book for you too”.
if it’s something you just need any ticket for send her the link “we’ve bought for the Tuesday, here’s the link if you’d like to get a ticket to join us”.
When it comes to dinner just say to the waiter 2/3rds here and 1/3 on DSIL’s card please.
For drinks, you and DH pay for a round each, if there’s a third round “your round DsIL, same again please”.

And pay for things using “your card”, even if it’s from your joint account. I’ve found when we take my partners family out for dinner they’ll say thank you to whichever of us specifically paid, even though it always comes from our joint account.

Ugh. This would make me want to cool things waaaaaay down with SIL (and MIL). They're emotionally blackmailing you to accept poor behaviour.

No way would I want theatre trips and dinner with someone who scams me for the tickets, ignores your boundaries and then runs to her 'explosive' mother when things don't go her way.

Worth your DH checking out the whole FOG dynamic: FOG - Fear, Obligation & Guilt — Out of the FOG | Personality Disorders, Narcissism, NPD, BPD

This is all you need.

If you want a bigger conversation about it, I’d text her.

“Hi SIL, we need to change the way we do things going forward. We’re always happy for you to join us when we go out, but we can’t keep paying for your tickets/meals etc. From now on, things will be split 1/3 and 2/3 so that we’re all paying for ourselves. The current set up isn’t working, so I hope you appreciate our position. Totally understand if it means you join us for fewer events, although I hope it doesn’t! We’re going to see X on Y date, which is why I wanted to mention this now. Let me know if you’d like to come to X, tickets are £48 each. x”

Why do you need to tell her what your doing just go without her.