SIL want to come to concerts etc with us but seems to expect us to treat her?

[Bollyhob]

My SIL who I do like is single and in her 40s. She works, has her own flat and is always busy with friends, dating etc.

She loves to be out and about and so quite often if she asks what me and DH (her brother) are up to going to see a film, for a meal, to see a band or a play she'll say oh I fancy that, room for one more?

I don't mind her coming at all but what does annoy me is that their is always this expectation that it will be our treat which makes it awkward when it comes time to pay for things, she's definitely always hanging back in the hope that me and my dh will pick up the bill and is quite put out if asked to pay for her meal, ticket etc. I think it could be that my DH will usually pay for things when we are out so perhaps she feels like she's paying and I'm being "treated" but that money comes out of mine and DHs joint account so I am paying my share!

I got fed up with it and so have started just booking things and keeping quiet about them but she's now gotten upset about that saying she'd have loved ro see that show and we should have invited her. She can be touchy and so I was hoping to avoid a scene with her but will probably just have to say that she can't keep expecting us to pay for her unless it's her birthday or something.

I wonder if she does with her other friends or of its just us, I'm sure it isn't normal behaviour.

That would definitely sour the relationship quite quickly so it needs addressed. If she continues to huff then you have genuinely tried, no matter how this goes you and your DH have been very generous and gracious.

There have been times when she's booked all our tickets for play and then when we ask her what we owe her she tells us the full amount including her ticket! DH has even paid up a few times not realising that us what she's done, it a bit cheeky.

A bit cheeky? She's got more cheek than 10 elephants' arses! I couldn't spend another night out with somebody like this, the resentment would choke me. You can't possibly enjoy her company that much, surely? And who cares if she goes in a huff? Seriously, the brass neck of it is mind-boggling.

There is absolutely no way I'd stand for this. Even if I had spare money as such, I could think of lots of better ways to spend it than on someone with such an entitled and cheeky attitude. In theory I could be the SIL. I'm a lone parent with an older sister who for the last decade at least has been substantially better off than me with a high earning partner too and no children. I am fairly scrupulous about paying my share and unless I can do so, don't go to things. I will let her treat me very occasionally but at her instigation rather than mine and at nothing like the kind of amounts being mentioned here. SIL is a cheeky fucker, people act like this because decent people let them get away with it. Fuck that.

My FIL is like this even though he has more money than us. I don’t say anything to him because it’s up to my husband, but I’ve stopped asking him if he wants to come with us. He ends up missing out tho the same as your SIL. It’s a shame but I don’t think they see it.

@LifeIsNeverKind She does have a brass neck and in some ways I admire her for it but yeah it's a bit much.

@theleafandnotthetree I have worried that if we do keep letting her get away with this then it's kind of enabling bad behaviour that could be evident in her other relationships and that as family who will always be there for her we need to be the ones who make it clear to her it's not cool. I think your right that it's perfectly fine to accept an offer from someone to treat you but it's not fine to just expect it.

Initially I thought the ‘book yourself’ approach might be enough but this doesn’t solve the dinners and your updates are appalling. Even if she is a younger sibling, all bets are off when you’re in your 40s and solvent.

I think your DH should have a chat with her. And if she huffs let her huff. It’s better than being doormats for the next 30 years.

I think in some weird family way she sees her brother paying for you and thinks he should pay for her (not thinking it’s joint account funds). That’s what would annoy me the most. I would make a point of going up to pay. I would also get DH to ask for the booking fee for things that are booked upfront. I also would probably prefer most trips to be me and DH so time together but that’s just me!

You know it's deliberate, OP? There are some people who just manage their finances this way, by getting other people to pay for things they want. The huffs are intended to make you feel like you're the ones in the wrong so you'll stop asking her to pay her share.

It does need to be dealt with because if you don't, it will carry on until your justified resentment reaches a point where it causes a massive fall out. But I think you'd need to be prepared for her to throw her toys out of the pram and go on the hunt for a new friend who will pay. It would be interesting to know what her dynamic is like with other people, and if she's doing the same to them.

I think someone needs to have a frank conversation with her about it, if that person is you - "We are happy for you to join us but it was costing us too much because you just don't tend to pay your share. I know it might seem like your brother is treating me but that money comes out of our joint account"

If she gets huffy about it, that's fine, she can stay at home.

@MidLifeMayhem I think you're right that she feels like it's a snub to her in some way if I get paid for and she doesn't. We've told her before it's a joint account but yes perhme using my card to pay is one way to get the pont across. Its just DHs habit to be the one to settle the bill but its no big deal for me to do it if she's with us.

Dh and I do get plenty of night out just the two of us and we also live and wfh together most of the time so his sister coming out with us isn't a major imposition.

I think your DH should say something

There have been times when she's booked all our tickets for play and then when we ask her what we owe her she tells us the full amount including her ticket!

You need to check the prices online and just pay for your two tickets.

Going forward you can say "Do you fancy going to see xx? The tickets cost ££. I will book you a ticket after you have you transferred me the money. My account details are xx"

Re meals, just say before you eat that you and your DH will ask for a separate bill to hers, or just stop eating out with her.

If she queries it just say that you can't afford to keep subsidising her and grey rock her when she gets huffy.

She takes the piss because you enable her.

I wouldn't mention a single word about it to her directly. Whatever you decide to do it's for her brother to address. Otherwise there will be a risk of a long term fractured relationship.

@FirmPeachDog I have wondered if she does do this with other people, she does seem to do it with other family as well.

I'm sure her friend aren't paying for her but she may be expecting her dates to pay for her all the time and that not how it really works these days I don't think, again sometimes yes but as women often out earn men it's usual that people will split the bill or at least that was the case when I was single and dating. Not too many men appreciate a woman who never at least offers to pay her share.

@RampantIvy "She takes the piss because you enable her"

This is fair I suppose.

Yes. Just say, ‘If you want to come, the tickets for X are selling out fast, so hurry. We’re in Row D 15 and 16.’

She takes offence when reminded that, as an adult, she needs to pay for things that she buys - just like all other adults do?! Is her name Count Martha Strong?! She may be the younger sibling, but it's not like your DH is 20 and she's still 11 being taken out for a treat by big brother!

She really can't be that thick that she sees somebody handing over a payment on behalf of them and their spouse and assuming that they are wanting to 'treat' everybody else. Even if your DH were 'treating' you every time from his own money, it's a completely different dynamic being a spouse to just being a sibling. Just like you quite happily pay for stuff for your own kids, but that certainly doesn't mean that you'll pay for everybody else's kids.

Even the "room for one more?" is manipulative, as she's making it sound like she won't cost any extra - like asking if you've a spare seat in the car when you're all going to a free activity - when she's actually increasing your costs by 50%. Tickets to see bands or for the theatre aren't cheap either. The times when she has paid upfront for you all and then expected to be reimbursed for her own ticket as well are mind-blowing!

I can't see any way around this that won't cause her 'offence'; but remember that she has actively chosen to take that offence and, as PP said, it's a deliberate mechanism for her to keep demanding what she wants from you without you feeling able to challenge her. Don't feel afraid or awkward that she has chosen that route of taking offence - it's all on her and not you. I suppose you could always ask her if she wants any help with budgeting or if she has money problems as you've noticed that she likes all the nice things in life, but she never seems to have any money to pay for it, so she ends up expecting other adults to pay for her - I don't know if that might work at all?

Definitely make it crystal clear that you're on to her and that you mind very much. Why not play her at her own game when you challenge her and she chooses to take offence - and loudly take offence yourself? How come she is allowed to be offended to be expected to pay for what she wants to buy, but you aren't allowed to be offended at being royally rinsed by her every single time?

What happens when she huffs op?

I'd just ignore it. You could also play her at her own game- get her to book the tickets and then don't pay her back. When having a meal, say it's her turn this time. Etc etc.

I wonder whether she will be quite as keen to spend so much time with you and your DH if you stop paying for her.

When DS goes out with his friends they all book their own. They pick an area with lots of free seats and whatsapp around what seats they have booked. If they all book quickly, they sit next to each other, otherwise are in the same row/proximity.

Do similar with her - tell her you have booked, tell her what seats you have and make sure there's a bunch of free seats on either side when you book.

Then the ball is in her court.

Ooh, is she one of these women who deliberately goes on multiple dates - whether she likes him or not - just to score herself a free meal?

It's a terribly reductive attitude to paint herself as the pathetic little woman who needs a big rich man to pay for her all the time. It's like she's a child out with mummy or daddy.

If she keeps this up, she'll end up attracting all of the wrong sorts who aren't interested in a relationship of two equal adults and who just want a power-trip roleplay scenario - like those ghastly sugar baby/sugar daddy setups. Even then, they tend to be very young women with much older men; not in their 40s. Or maybe she's very happy to trade all of her dignity and equal adult status in exchange for being subbed in everything?

😱 OMG I could never do that to be honest, my neck is quite lacking in brass. But yes I will put a stop to it for sure.

I don't think she'd go on a date with a man she had no interest in just to get a free dinner but I think she might feel like it's an insult to her femininity if a man expects her to pay, that she should be so prized by him that he wants to pay for her kind if thing or at least that's the impression I get from some of the things she has said.

No no no, repeat what all the other posters have said and put a stop to this now. So entitled!

An ex friend once told another friend that she wouldn't be paying me back for her theatre ticket as ' I could afford to pay for hers too'. We never went out again!

You have no choice but to act now anyway. As you have noticed it and it’s bugging you eventually you will crack and blurt out something so best to get ahead of that and do so in a measured calm way