SIL want to come to concerts etc with us but seems to expect us to treat her?

[Bollyhob]

My SIL who I do like is single and in her 40s. She works, has her own flat and is always busy with friends, dating etc.

She loves to be out and about and so quite often if she asks what me and DH (her brother) are up to going to see a film, for a meal, to see a band or a play she'll say oh I fancy that, room for one more?

I don't mind her coming at all but what does annoy me is that their is always this expectation that it will be our treat which makes it awkward when it comes time to pay for things, she's definitely always hanging back in the hope that me and my dh will pick up the bill and is quite put out if asked to pay for her meal, ticket etc. I think it could be that my DH will usually pay for things when we are out so perhaps she feels like she's paying and I'm being "treated" but that money comes out of mine and DHs joint account so I am paying my share!

I got fed up with it and so have started just booking things and keeping quiet about them but she's now gotten upset about that saying she'd have loved ro see that show and we should have invited her. She can be touchy and so I was hoping to avoid a scene with her but will probably just have to say that she can't keep expecting us to pay for her unless it's her birthday or something.

I wonder if she does with her other friends or of its just us, I'm sure it isn't normal behaviour.

If she knows you’ve been booking things without telling her, then you have a good starting point for an honest conversation. Just tell her that you don’t like being secretive but she’s leaving you no alternative because she expects you to pay for her every time and you simply can’t afford it. I’d also be asking her why she feels so entitled to ‘tag along’ and expect you to pay. I suspect it’s because she wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford it. It’s taking the piss.

We have this problem with my BIL (DH’s brother 5years younger). He pulls all the tricks - suggests we all go out, picks a nice place and then disappear to the loo as the bill arrives! He suddenly finds something really interesting in a gift shop / needs to take an urgent call at the very moment we reach the front of the queue to buy tickets / pay for shopping etc . Always “forgetting” to transfer funds after a weekend away despite reminders. Blinking and looking confused when we are discussing who’s round it is…
I think it was a habit that formed when we were earning grads and he was a poor student and he just decided to keep riding that train!!
It’s funny how it makes it embarrassing for the out of pocket party rather than the cheeky gits but there you go! Last time we went out and he went to the loo I got him a separate bill as I had had enough. He’d been suggesting starters, cocktails, pudding - he hadn’t held back assuming it was on our dime!! His face when he realised! I’m not sure how I kept a straight face. I just said “oh I thought it was a bit pricey for you to cover us all even though you suggested this place so we’ve paid our share”. This sort of allowed him to save face as I wasn’t calling him a CF but made it clear that he was paying his own way. Longer term though… it’s so hard as I feel it would cause a rift if we addressed it directly.

A friend was friends with a very wealthy man you have probably heard of. Even he got upset eventually as he was picking up every tab for his group of “friends” in restaurants Dds best friends family are stratospherically rich but we are always careful to pay our way.

When booking said concert or event you message her with the booking confirmation and say “here you go X is booked for X date at a cost of £75 each, can you please send yours over to me or DH”

What is your DH thoughts about it all? Just curious as it's his sister

I think it could be that my DH will usually pay for things when we are out so perhaps she feels like she's paying and I'm being "treated" but that money comes out of mine and DHs joint account so I am paying my share!

So what if he was treating you, your his wife! Ridiculous she should have the same expectations. She sounds a bit enmeshed to be honest.

Some ideas that could help:

1. If she says she wants to come. Straight away, first response, “Sure, it’s £35 do you want to PayPal me and I can book?”

2. If it’s a joint account, I’m guessing you have a card too? So just make sure it’s you paying rather than him. And then just say to the cashier that you want two receipts or whatever.

Her sulking that the two of you would go for events without her is very silly. “Sorry Brenda, it’s date night.” She needs to find some more friends to go to events with.

He's certainly pissed off about it but she's definitely their mother's golden child and having myself previously had a run in with the sister years ago about boundaries (expecting DH and I to drop everything to assist her at short notice) which resulted in an explosive reaction from their mum in support of her daughter that was really quite unpleasant. It's a whole family dynamic issue I think we are both kind of loathe to stir up.

OP you could pay for the meal, that would disabuse her of the notion that your dh was doing the treating and then next time say it's your turn to pay for everyone, I did it last time and dh did it the time before.
Getting her to pay for her own tickets, I'd say sure you can come I'll text you our seat numbers, hopefully you can get a seat closeby. Or when arranging - it's £75 can you send me over the cash by tommorw if you want to come, otherwise I'll just book for dh and I.

I am gobsmacked that you've told her you pay from a joint account. Your finances are none of her business.

Your DH needs to sort this out, really, but I'm guessing he won't and that's why you've posted.
I agree with the advice to ask her if she fancies whatever you're going to and make clear that you'll book her a ticket only when she's transferred the money, and to tell her you'll ask for separate restaurant bills to keep things clear.
So what if she huffs?

@Lemonadeand Yeah their is something a bit weird with how she expects to be treated by her brother as of he pays for me but not her means she's somehow lesser or something but it's just different. I will look up emeshment.

Right this is quality time with your husband - no?

stop inviting her and get him to tell her - I’m going with my wife, we are spending time together.

I think you DH needs to have a serious chat - you are married and she needs to back off.

why are you telling her stuff?

It sounds like you need a clear conversation with her

Sil we're happy for you to come to events with us but you need to pay for yourself in future.

Next time she asks to come, ask for the money to be transferred or ask her to book something herself and you send her the money for your seats. She's only getting away with this because you haven't been direct with her - stop letting her freeload off you

Then you need to step in and go "Woah, woah, woah hang on a second. I know the tickets for this concert/event cost £X so why are we covering your ticket too?" or tell your DH if she pays for the tickets to wait until you get home before transferring money to her so that you can check the prices.
Perhaps if her big brother was a bit more stern with her about her behaviour and practices here.

Do you have kids @Bollyhob? If you do, their aunt who you've said works and has her own place, is taking money away from them. Not such a nice aunt now is she?

Hmm, interesting. I wonder if she also finds it an insult to her femininity to be paid the same as a man doing the same job as her at the same level? Sounds like it only goes one way, though...

I’d always get the money off her beforehand for any tickets (possibly add a bit more on in for an interval drink) and then start dropping a few comments such as it must be your turn to get dinner we are always treating you. Or just stop having dinner with her.

I’m far better off than any of my siblings, there were six of us. When I was working I didn’t mind paying for stuff but I live a few hundred miles away so it was only ever a couple of times a year. They however have had much harder lives financially than me and one sister does have very severe MH issues. Plus it was not tightness, they just couldn’t have come out,

This is not the case plus the huffiness, I wouldn’t be paying ever again.

Message her that you'll be booking tickets for xx tomorrow. Transfer money by tonight if you fancy going.

Just keep bringing it to attention politely, cheerily but firmly, over and over. I also agree with you being the one to physically pay your and DH's share sometimes just for appearances in front of her.
"We'll book tickets tomorrow, if you send your £60 beforehand we'll book them so we're definitely sitting together"
"What do you think about this restaurant, it looks around £40 per person"
If she huffs about the cost beforehand, suggest a cheaper activity. If she huffs at the point of payment, "It's lovely to see you and I'm happy to treat sometimes, but DW and I can't afford to pay your share every time. We either need to split the cost evenly or do evenings in when we catch up, to save money."
And all of this should be coming from your DH.

There have been times when she's booked all our tickets for play and then when we ask her what we owe her she tells us the full amount including her ticket! DH has even paid up a few times not realising that us what she's done, it a bit cheeky.

This is much more than a bit cheeky. She’s expecting you to pay for everything all the time, she’s doing it to other family members too, and she’s huffing if you ever ask you to pay her way (to make you feel about asking her to pay her share). This is really terrible behaviour.
Really the only thing to do is for you and your husband to be honest.
“Yes we’d love you to join us Flossie, but we need you to start paying for your tickets and meals. It isn’t right that Fred pays for everyone every single time, is it?” Huffing is no answer. See if she can give any reason why she thinks he should pay for her all the time. My guess is that as a habitual freeloader she’s just got used to sponging off all of you.

After reading this update - I think you need to find, read, print out and pop on your walls, the not rocking the boat analogy for family dynamics.
It was posted on Reddit a good few years ago but I've copied and pasted it below (sorry it's long)

Don't rock the boat.
I've been thinking about this phrase a lot lately, about how unfair it is. Because we aren't the ones rocking the boat. It's the crazy lady jumping up and down and running side to side. Not the one sitting in the corner quietly not giving a fuck.

At some point in her youth, Mum/MIL/SiL gave the boat a little nudge. And look how everyone jumped to steady the boat! So she does it again, and again. Soon her family is in the habit of swaying to counteract the crazy. She moves left, they move right, balance is restored (temporarily). Life goes on. People move on to boats of their own.

The boat-rocker can't survive in a boat by herself. She's never had to face the consequences of her rocking. She'll tip over. So she finds an enabler: someone so proud of his boat-steadying skills that he secretly (or not so secretly) lives for the rocking.

The boat-rocker escalates. The boat-steadier can't manage alone, but can't let the boat tip. After all, he's the best boat-steadier ever, and that can't be true if his boat capsizes, so therefore his boat can't capsize. How can they fix the situation?

Ballast!

And the next generation of boat-steadiers is born.

A born boat-steadier doesn't know what solid ground feels like. He's so used to the constant swaying that anything else feels wrong and he'll fall over. There's a good chance the boat-rocker never taught him to swim either. He'll jump at the slightest twitch like his life depends on it, because it did .

When you're in their boat, you're expected to help steady it. When you decline, the other boat-steadiers get resentful. Look at you, just sitting there while they do all the work! They don't see that you aren't the one making the boat rock.

They might not even see the life rafts available for them to get out. All they know is that the boat can't be allowed to tip, and you're not helping.

Now you and your DH get a boat of your own. With him not there, the balance of the boat changes. The remaining boat-steadiers have to work even harder.
While a rocking boat is most concerning to those inside, it does cause ripples. The nearby boats start to worry. They're getting splashed! Somebody do something!

So the flying monkeys are dispatched. Can't you and DH see how much better it is for everyone (else) if you just get back on the boat and keep it steady? It would make their lives so much easier.

You know what would be easier? If they all just chucked the bitch overboard.

Why does she have to come with you everywhere ? So she moans when you dont invite her. Tough. Dont tell her where you've been. Sometimes you want to go out without her. I get that you dont want to offend her but she's completely indifferent to the effect that her behaviour is having on you. She's taking the piss. Don't invite her. If she wants to join you she'll have to start paying, simple as that - family dynamic notwithstanding, otherwise it'll never end. She's in her 40s not a broke teenager.

You need to be prepared to stand your ground with MIL too. It sounds like SIL has learned this behaviour from someone. Don't let MIL pressure you both into giving in. You're independent adults, not children arguing in the back garden.

I agree - deal with each instance at the time, and get her brother to tackle her.

This is bizarre. I don't understand how she's been allowed to get away with it for so long, or why she even thinks she's entitled to try. She sounds like a right CF but the onus should be on you or your DH to immediately present her with the bill for tickets you've ordered on her behalf. Don't wait for her to offer, just say 'Okay all booked, can you transfer this to acc. no. xxxx please.' And send her a screenshot of her share.

Likewise with meals out, don't pay the whole bill then wait for her to offer her share. Divide the bill as soon as it comes and say 'that's £30 per head.' When the waiter comes for payment say 'Can you take £60 off this card for us two please. SIL, yours is £30, are you paying cash or card?'

If you aren't being clear or assertive enough about this then you are only giving her the impression that you are happy to do it, especially if her brother is a 'big brother' who has significantly more money than she does. It's almost like an adult child expecting her rich Daddy to pay.