How to break bad news - 11+

[GoodIsGoodEnough]

My DC hasn't scored high enough to get into grammar. It was always going to be a long shot with much less tutoring than their peers, but I am still sad for them.

Any advice on how to tell them the news would be appreciated.

Do I give them their real score which is about 30 marks off, or do I say their score was closer (say 10 marks off)?

I hate that at 10 they're going to not feel "good enough". I never wanted the 11+, they got wind of it and wanted to do it. I feel like I've let them down.

I didn't go to grammar and I've read all the stories of people going to comps and doing well, which I'm sure she will, but just looking for some advice on how to handle this immediate situation today.

DS of my friend passed the 11+ but was unhappy in the grammar school. He changed schools for A levels.

I used to tutor and out of a group of 10, I could have told you on the first day what the result was going to be for 7 of them. The other 3 might have been borderline. The area where I taught, the pass mark was 121- around 75%- and we'd have been looking at a minimum score of ~60% without any tutoring and a year in advance if they had any real chance of passing.

If the pass mark is 220 and they got 170, that's 22.7% less than the pass mark.

The average score in Bucks is 100 as the scores are standardised, so a score of 22.7% below the pass mark would be below average and an honest tuition centre would tell you before even starting tuition that your child was not going to qualify for grammar school.

Tell the truth.

You could say matter of factly that she didn't make it this time; the competition was fierce and quite a few other children had extra help, but you're proud of her and believe that whatever school she goes to, she'll find her way. You love her and care about her feelings which matters much more than academic success.

Not really. The 11+ is essentially an IQ test in the main, and tutoring isn’t much good in these circumstances because the test is based in logic. So at some point the child will reach limit of their natural ability, which determines whether they pass or fail. So essentially you were spouting twaddle.

How can it be that you can achieve something which is beyond your natural ability? If you achieve it, then you must be capable of it! That’s the basis of education, surely? You might not enjoy it, or want to make the effort, but that’s a different issue and something which is widespread among teenagers in every type of school, including Grammars!

Tell her the truth and that not everyone can get in. She's going to the local comp, time to stop mollycoddling.

I live in a grammar area and of my 4, two got in, two did not.
I certainly didn't lie and tell them they got in, that's a dreadful idea. Neither did I give them their score but I said it "wasn't quite there". Actually they were both 13 marks off.

I told them that the test really measures how fast you are at doing certain things, especially maths. So if you are a bit slower you might be just as smart but not get enough right in the time, but in life most things aren't measured that way. And then stressed the theatre, the art department etc that was better at the comp.

Both my "failures" were fine. One cried for a few mins, the other not at all.

Absolute honesty. In my family we have a tradition of celebrating doing your best in exams and focussing on the effort not the outcome. There are going to be plenty of times in her life when she trues and fails and its as valuable a thing to learn how to face this as it is to continually achieve and come to expect it.

A person may well be capable of going beyond their natural ability as a short term thing by focussing their whole life and time on it which is very stressful. That may well be fine and acceptable if its eg a driving course or a language course...anything where its a short term thing with an end goal. If you hothouse a child (or an adult) with the end plan of getting them into a situation where they will have much higher expectations put on them and the "whole life and time" focus must continue in order to just keep their head above water, its not good for their mental health or their future.

If she's bright she won't need grammar school to do well and be successful.
Comp will probably be a better fit for her, just say she didn't score high enough but you are proud of her anyway and there are plenty other schools.
She will probably be upset but part of life is overcoming setbacks, not all of us are destined to go to harvard.

Because in some areas and for some papers it is possible to teach skills that will help children to squeeze extra marks from the test, and this can swing it. I used to invigilate 11 plus and you could tell the tutored kids from the moment they walked in ( especially the poor souls who turned up in their school uniform on a Saturday morning , presumably so they were in the right frame of mind) . They would be champing at the bit as I went through the test procedures, had done so many practice tests that you could see their minds running through the possible ways to attempt each question. They would leave something they weren’t sure of and move on, and they then went back over the paper to check if they had time. The untutored children might as well have been sitting a test in Martian, they had no examination skills, didn’t understand NV questions, and wasted time on questions they didn’t understand. I did it for two years and it was pretty horrible to watch to be honest.

I'd be casual about it. No, we didn't quite make it. You weren't far off a pass but it wasn't to be. Tbh I think x school would be better for you anyway. They've got a great sports dept/drama club/whatever she will like and you'll probably get more out of that than you would at y school.

I also think that it is really important to try to convey in an age appropriate way that it is not all black and white and you are academic enough or not so academic in absolute terms. Children develop at different times and if the test were taken at say fourteen, it could be a different picture for many children. Mine went to grammar and it was interesting how some just fell off their trajectories and others who didn't make the score matured differently and did brilliantly in their non-grammars. It's a brutal test at that delicate age.I feel for you OP.

Had this with my DD 5 years ago. I was honest with her and explained that one test doesn't mean anything in the long run and the fact she tried/ put herself out there was just as important.
She has thrived at her high school and is doing her GCSEs this year predicted top marks and getting to do creative subjects she loves that aren't pushed as much in the local grammar. Plus most of her friends went to the local high school which made a big difference.

We also didn't play the tutoring game as always felt if you have to be heavily tutored to pass it then you will struggle when you get to the grammar.

Grammar schools are a con. People who get in have been tutored heavily - whether they have natural ability or not.

it used to be that only kids with natural ability got in, but it’s now an industry where kids are trained from year 1, so even those with natural ability need some form
of tutoring. Anybody who says their kid did not get tutored is either lying or their child is a genious, but I don’t see much evidence of grammar schools churning out geniouses by the 1000s in the UK.

it would be a good idea to tell your child the truth about grammar schools so that she doesn’t feel academically inferior. She is just as likely to get AAA at a levels than at a grammar school, and with a lot less pressure.

The true con is the trend for ex-teachers cashing in on desperate parents with so-called 11+ tutoring.

As has been said already, tutoring may help a child scrape a pass rather than a fail by providing tips on exam technique, time management, and being able to recognise the format of some of the recurring questions.

The reality is that the children who will thrive at grammar school, will sail through their 11+ with or without tutoring.

I agree with this. Mine got way way above the pass mark with some tutoring in mid year 5. But I know they would have passed anyway. Problem is, EVERYONE round here tutors, so we thought we might be putting them at a disadvantage if we didn't. It was mainly exam technique etc and some practice tests. Some people have hardcore tutors from year 3! You have to think, if they need that much, are they really going to be ok after the exam? is there some sort of shame about not going to a grammar? Maybe. I think there is a stigma round here. But it's coming from the adults, not the children!!! One lady was talking about how her daughter was absolutely in tears the night before, couldn't sleep etc etc with the pressure and I'm thinking, you know YOU have done that to her...

Goes to show that studying hard and prioritising education is extremely beneficial for children. These parents don't rely on luck, they pay for tutoring instead of drinks, manicure out or takeaways each week. So much bitterness about children achieving. It's not rocket science, put in the hours, learn revision techniques, be disciplined and you'll likely do well in school unless there are underlying SEN. If you're keen on Grammar, you need to be bright as well as prepare. If your child can't be bothered to revise or gets flustered they won't pass the exam. As pp have said, they can still do extremely well in senior school. Some parents prefer the highly aspiration ethos of grammar schools, they are not always the better school for each child. A well rounded comprehensive can be just as great if not better. If your dc prefers to be in top sets in comprehensive or secondary modern rather than middle or lower sets in grammar, don't send them to grammar.

Are you saying that children who don’t go to grammar schools are not or cannot be high achievers?! Hahahahaha.

Here we go. Of course, your children were barely tutored and sailed through whilst other children need extensive tutoring. Hahahahahahaha. So predictable. I am expecting a deluge of Nobel prize winners, all from grammar schools, in the near future.

(I have 3 degrees, a master and went to Russell uni. Shock horror I did not go to grammar. I’m sure I would have sailed through without tutoring, hahahaha. In fact, I bet I could have got top marks if I had done the exam blindfolded doing a handstand and spinning a plate on a foot)

Absolute rubbish, seriously bullshit!!!

My two both got into grammar schools and neither of them were tutored! I couldn't afford it, especially with my son as I was a single mother on benefits at the time.

Yes a lot are tutored, but a lot are tutored who fail.

My children prove it is possible without any kind of tutoring (and when they brought home the practice paper, that they all do just before the test, I didn't have a clue how to do it, so I couldn't tutor them either).

Just a thing that bothers me is the idea of framing this as a 'failure' in any way.

You've just not met the criteria this time round.

That's not a failure. 10/11 year olds can't fail. They still have the opportunity to succeed just in a different place.

A place that's probably more suited to them.

There will be kids that sail through the 11+ and then have a car crash at GCSEs because they can't cope with the pressure or have any other numbers of issues going on.

The OPs kid needs to use this as a focus to gain success WHEN and WHERE it matters.

That's not the 11+.

The trouble is other parents and kids will see it as the be all and end all, when it's really not. It's just different.

One thing that is not being discussed in the "can they/can't they if they have a tutor" discussion is also quality of education they're receiving currently. DD is in a primary that is, not to put too fine a point on it, very weak academically. It's also a school that puts a lot of effort into the children at the lower end - which I appreciate as I had one of those too and it makes a huge difference when he got to high school. If she goes for the test, we'll have a tutor but largely becuase we know there are things that haven't been covered at school or haven't been covered well at school. But I've told her that the tutor is just a support, ultimately, it comes down to a combination of if she's got the right kind of brain for grammar, and her own willingness and motivation to put in extra work.