End of my rope with bedtime for DDs 11 and 14

[BadBedtimeCrew]

I really value sleep and think it is so important that they go to bed at a decent hour, but somehow bedtime with my 2 daughters now takes longer than it did when they were little. We need a reset and I’m interested to know how it works for other people.

I’ll go up with the 11 year old at about 7:30. We’ll sometimes listen to a podcast while doing some colouring, or we’ll both sit quietly reading. It’s lights out at 8:00. Ideally then I’ll go downstairs for a bit, but she will often appear several times wanting to be put back to bed saying she can’t sleep. For reference, DH thinks lights out at anything past 7:30 is too late, and when I’m not around, DD11 does go to bed without drama at 7:30 although she says that she lies awake for ages.

DD14 is quite good at taking herself up to bed but also likes me to sit with her reading for a while, often about 8:15 to 8:45. She turns her light out when she’s tired, but it’s never past 9:00. It has been as early as 7:30 recently - knackered from start of school year shenanigans. The 11 yo will often disrupt this reading time asking to be put back to bed, and it’s not unusual for me to still be dealing with the 11 yo even after the 14 yo has turned her light out.

The fannying around with DD11 invariably eats into the time with DD14. Worse, they keep playing off against each other about the amount of time i spend with each of them at bedtime even if that time is spent arguing, or consoling an upset, hormonal teenager. Three nights this week it’s descended into arguments. Not great for winding down and drifting off.

i think they just need to put themselves to bed but I suppose I also have a bit of sadness about not spending this time with them, which is daft, as II honestly feel that spending this time with each of them is creating the problem.

So what do you do with your 11 and 14 yo DCs for bedtime?

Far too early! My 14 year old (year 10) goes to bed about 10.30 and up at 6.30am

DS is 11.
He's learning to self manage his tiredness level/ sleep needs.
The latest he nab have lights out is 10pm and it's on the understanding that he gets up easily for school the next day. If he's tired in the morning it's earlier lights out to catch up. Took him a while to manage this himself and not see the early night as a punishment but he's there now. 9 times out of ten he gets up fine with the 10pm lights out, it's only occasionally he tired come morning and needed an early night that night.

He's up at 7.30 for school and both bedtime and getting up are done independently with me and/or DH popping in to say goodnight/good morning

You sound like a lovely, considerate mum. But at this age they should both be send upstairs with a 'see you tomorrow' and a kiss goodnight, they shouldn't need to be fighting for your time or be needing to be put to bed! My parents had zero clue what time I was going to sleep at 14! Not that it was ridiculously late but kids should be given way more privacy and independence at that age

And sorry OP but you are hugely treating your tween and teenager like infants. They should not be having you to comfort them to that degree and for that length of time each night 🙈 My teenagers put themselves to bed - I do sometimes sit and talk to them briefly beforehand but that’s the extent of it (!) and my 10 year old likes to read to me for about 15 minutes before turning off the lights. On some nights after activities this doesn’t happen as it’s straight to bed after eating her dinner. I will give her a kiss goodnight and that’s it.

This is fucking weird OP. Stop doing this to your kids ffs.

And this?

For reference, DH thinks lights out at anything past 7:30 is too late, and when I’m not around, DD11 does go to bed without drama at 7:30 although she says that she lies awake for ages.

This is really sad. The poor girl.

They only need about 10 hours by age 11. So that would be 9pm for the younger one if getting up at 7.

This

I’m also a stickler for bedtimes. But your 11 year old has the same routine as my 5 year old and your 14 year old has the same routine as my 8 year old.

They aren't babies or toddlers anymore. The very idea of actually putting a teenager and an 11 year old to bed and reading to them as if they were still preschoolers is ridiculous. Even faintly comical. Definitely uncool.

I think at around 11 mine were generally going to bed around 9.30. Throughout their teenage years we didn't have set bedtimes at all, though they were generally up in their rooms for much of the evening after a family dinner, which was generally between 7 and 7.30. They saw themselves off to bed, usually between 10 and 10.30.

You and your DH have been creating a problem and friction where none needs to exist. Your children need to be learning to self regulate and settle themselves much more now.

I want to add, definitely don't carry this to the extremes that one of my DD1's friend's parents did. I'm sure you won't anyway. They were at university in their fresher year. The friend's parents were determined that he would go to bed at the preset time of 10pm and would schedule a phone call at the appointed time to ensure this was adhered to. The young man would take the call, say goodnight to them, assure them that he was just getting into bed, and then join his friends at the Student Union or the pub to join his friends for the rest of the night. 🤣

The lights-out at 7.30pm thing is like something out of Enid Blyton. Why don’t you say ‘girls upstairs and in to your own rooms for 9pm.’

This ^

I don't understand how the father can possibly think that lights out at any time after 7:30pm is "too late"(!). Is he part of some weird religious cult or part of the Amish community?

Further to my earlier post I actually remember watching the very first episode of Mastermind together with my mum and dad on BBC1 "late" on a Monday night. It was a school night and I was 14. According to the Radio Times archive it started at 10:45pm and went on until 11:10pm.

I wouldn't have got to bed 'til nearly midnight and would have read for at least another 30 minutes. And that was the norm rather than something out of the usual.

Schedule - BBC Programme Index

In summer those bedtimes seem way too early. It would be still light outside. Even in winter a 14 yo should be responsible enough to go to sleep when they want, as long as they're in the bedroom not on devices all night. It's all too rigid seeming for that age.

It's really simple ...its to early to go to bed
7.30 lights out? At 11 ? Is your dh mad.
Why are you just causing your own stress.
I thought I was strick with a 9.30 bedtime school nights . 10.30 weekends 😆
They are obviously still to awake with energy at that time.

Do they share a bedroom?

7.30 pm? Really for an 11 year old? Okay why don't you play some board games/craftwork if you don’t want them in front of the TV and then they can go to bed at a normal time for a 11 year old

Unbelievably early for those ages! My 2 and 5 year olds go to bed at 8pm.

This is simply ridiculous. So after a school
day where parhaps they are not home until 3:30-4pm they only then have approx 3 hours for the 11 year old until they have to go up to bed? When do they exercise? Don’t they do any out of school activities? The 14 year old must just be eating dinner , homework
and then bed? Where’s family time? Where’s watching a bit of tv together? Just because you like your sleep teens are conditioned to stay up later and be pains in the bums in the mornings. It’s a phase we all have to go through with them. Eventually it does even out my 15 year used to be a nightmare but even he is lying in his bed by 10pm every week day now (used to be a lot later!).

7:30?! Mine are younger than yours and go to bed later than that! Sometimes we're only just having dinner at that time!

At 11 I was reading in bed until around 10.30 and still up at 6.30am. By 14 I was up until all bloody hours, and I got up still! If I was tired then I was tired, that was for me to manage but I was firmly told if I didn't get up there'd be consequences. So I'd be tired one day and then go to bed early! How do you expect kids to learn to self manage their sleep and understand tiredness?

My 7 year old goes to bed at 8.15 and wakes at 6.15. My 4 year old goes to bed at 8 and wakes at 7. They are incredibly early times for two older children. 7.30 would be seen as very very strange at that age amongst my friends. Obviously, if it works for the child then brilliant. But it’s not.

My close friend has a 14 year old. She is minimally directed at bedtime. Her mum spends time with her before bed, then she goes up on her own with some prompts about teeth etc. She sorts herself, gets into bed, read for a bit and my friend will pop up around 9 to say night. Reduce your input OP, also, what’s your DH about all of this (other than having his ridiculous 7.30 opinion).

"... By 14 I was up until all bloody hours, and I got up still! If I was tired then I was tired, that was for me to manage but I was firmly told if I didn't get up there'd be consequences. So I'd be tired one day and then go to bed early! How do you expect kids to learn to self manage their sleep and understand tiredness?"

This ^ by @GiddyRobin

Just read some more of your comments op- do you think that they are awful when they are tired because you don’t actually let them stay up and be tired and therefore it’s a shock to their systems. And/or their
not that terrible when tired you just can’t be arsed to handle them tired? I have a relation who is like this and everyone they come
for a sleepover they insist on normal
bedtimes. Which they never get here as I don’t see anything wrong with the occasional tiredness.

Yep this. You sound like a lovely mum who wants to spend time.with her kids..... though this will look different when they are teenagers. Ours are enjoying bake off we bake something (i do 85% of.the baking but still...) and sit down to watch it together...there is loads of good TV go enjoy together or go for a short walk or do something else but don't get overly focused on bedtime at this age.... you are all missing put on other ways to relax and enjoy evenings together. 9pm ish bedtime is fine for aged 12+ and they can sort themselves out
.

You're making your 11yo daughter have lights out at 8pm? That wild, but not quite as wild as putting a 14yo to bed. By 10, my stepdaughter was putting herself to bed when she was tired! Now she's 14, we don't have anything like a bedtime, she's nearly an adult! What time do they get up?

"You sound like a lovely, considerate mum."

Really? I think she sounds massively overbearing and beholden to her weird and controlling husband at the expense of her children's wellbeing.