End of my rope with bedtime for DDs 11 and 14

[BadBedtimeCrew]

I really value sleep and think it is so important that they go to bed at a decent hour, but somehow bedtime with my 2 daughters now takes longer than it did when they were little. We need a reset and I’m interested to know how it works for other people.

I’ll go up with the 11 year old at about 7:30. We’ll sometimes listen to a podcast while doing some colouring, or we’ll both sit quietly reading. It’s lights out at 8:00. Ideally then I’ll go downstairs for a bit, but she will often appear several times wanting to be put back to bed saying she can’t sleep. For reference, DH thinks lights out at anything past 7:30 is too late, and when I’m not around, DD11 does go to bed without drama at 7:30 although she says that she lies awake for ages.

DD14 is quite good at taking herself up to bed but also likes me to sit with her reading for a while, often about 8:15 to 8:45. She turns her light out when she’s tired, but it’s never past 9:00. It has been as early as 7:30 recently - knackered from start of school year shenanigans. The 11 yo will often disrupt this reading time asking to be put back to bed, and it’s not unusual for me to still be dealing with the 11 yo even after the 14 yo has turned her light out.

The fannying around with DD11 invariably eats into the time with DD14. Worse, they keep playing off against each other about the amount of time i spend with each of them at bedtime even if that time is spent arguing, or consoling an upset, hormonal teenager. Three nights this week it’s descended into arguments. Not great for winding down and drifting off.

i think they just need to put themselves to bed but I suppose I also have a bit of sadness about not spending this time with them, which is daft, as II honestly feel that spending this time with each of them is creating the problem.

So what do you do with your 11 and 14 yo DCs for bedtime?

Woah, my 4 and 6 year olds go to bed at 7.30, 9 at weekends. I don't have older children but would expect them to go to bed much later at that age. As pp have said at 11 I was at scouts until 9pm on a Tuesday. I would definitely make it to 9pm on a given night and 10-10.30 at a weekend. You know your own children so you go with your gut, but surely the fact they aren't staying in bed rings alarm bells..spend some extra time with them and eek it out a bit, maybe add 15-30mins every so many nights and see what happens..if they turn into total rat bags at some point you may have reached the peak.

OP does your dh not want to spend time with the kids ?
Why does he decide what they
do over what you would like ?

Why are you trying to get them to sleep so early does dh want peace and quiet ?

You have a fixation with the routine. At 11 and 14 they should be independently regulating themselves for the most part and heading to bed when it suits them. Could be 9.30 if they’re particularly tired, or 11 if they’re not/are reading etc..

It no longer needs to be a strict formula as it did when they are toddlers. They need to be able to read their own cues about when they’re tired. As PP have said your eldest is a mere 3 or 4 years away from potentially moving into student accommodation and you are still ‘putting her to bed!’

I’m surprised your DS doesn’t mind you sitting with him whilst he’s in the bath. DD would be mortified.
DS is less bothered about nakedness but still wouldn’t have wanted me sitting with him when he was in a bath!
There’s a reason they start to want more privacy at that age!

Your DH is being totally unreasonable- they are not babies!! In 4 years your 14 yo will be at work/ at the pub/ clubbing / at uni. What then- be back by 10??

They clearly aren’t tired at the ridiculously early bed time that’s why they are playing you up - your 14yo certainly isn’t being truthful with her friends about what time she goes to bed as I would imagine its very embarrassing for her!

Do you and your DH not like spending time with your kids? your focus here is wrong- sleep is important but your DC lying there awake night after night (not tired at 7.30) is not great either.

Thank you for all the replies. It’s very late for me - although it is the weekend - and so I am off to bed now.

Thank you for the suggestions. I’ve taken it all on board. (Bed) times are a-changing!

I'm sure you'll work something out OP.

But no one is actually going to sleep.

You and DH spend several hours dramatising and forcing your kids to lie awake in the dark when you could… just let them go to sleep at 10.

No TV or devices after a certain time then let them crack on.

Much too early to go to bed! Even back in the dark ages when I was eleven, I didn't go up to bed at 7.30 and certainly wouldn't have had my mum come up with me to get me settled. You do that with babies.

10pm is fine in term time. If they want to sleep earlier they'll go up beforehand.

Unless your kids have SEN it’s bizarre that you are engaged in their bedtimes to this extent. At 11 I was going to bed and reading and at 14 I had a boyfriend and a part-time job, I have very well adjusted relationships with both my parents. It does sound like you’re babying them massively which won’t help when they leave home

Mine are similar ages & are up between 6:15-6:30 am. But bedtime for the youngest is between 9:00-9:30 & the older one between 10:00-10:30. On a weekend it's even later. I am regularly told I am mean & their friends stay up way later.

They have activities until 8 & 9 some nights.

I think they are in bed way too early. What time did you go to bed at that age? I remember being allowed to stay up until the 10pm news started.

OP, in the kindest way, this is nuts. You don't put an 11 and 14 year old to bed!! How have you not realised that this isn't normal? They go to bed when they're tired, they'll find their own routine.

OP,

It seems from this thread that you are well meaning, and possibly that your DH is part of the explicit problem around bedtimes,

I am concerned that you are on a pathway where, if it is anything like my own experience, everyone loses. In my case it was DM who had rigid ideas about sleep having nothing to do with my own needs and originally separating me from my pre-school friends - friends she was extremely concerned that I as a shy child make.

This continued with updated parameters until I left for university: there was the agony of the weekend lie-ins, not being allowed to read let alone watch children’s TV; the guilt of finally breaking it to her age 9-10 that I really did not want (could not stand) to be put to bed with a lullaby anymore; the continuous losing battles with both parents over having a semblance of a normal bedtime, let alone a halfway normal social life in high school.

DM really liked the girls I was friends with and wanted to know why I wasn’t more like them. I would literally - and I do mean that - bite my tongue to keep from shrieking - ‘They have normal home lives! They are always asking me to stay with them to get away from the guilt here!’

The adolescent bedtimes were a huge piece of this. I too lay awake for many stressful hours, though I dare not get up.

Now my parents are old, and my mother doesn’t understand why we are not close. I am sadly confirmed in the idea that I had to choose between her and me, not just for the reasons I have laid out here. But they were early indicators. Please listen to your daughters

Your DH wants his evenings to be adult time, but now they are teenagers they aint going to be for a good few years yet.

Its like you could kiss goodbye to a full nights sleep when they were newborn, well now you can kiss goodbye to having alone time in the evening at home.

Its part and parcel of having kids and its time he realised that.

Could it be that your DH doesn't want them around after 7.30pm because he wants the evening to himself? Sometimes these childhood habits we've created just end up carrying on and I appreciate it can be hard to change. He may still be looking at them as 'kids' who bother him when he thinks it's his time to chill out. My DH is quite flexible but I've noticed when he's watching something and they're talking or making noise he'll just suddenly say 'shouldn't you be going to bed now?' And it's purely for his own benefit not any concern that they need a good nights sleep! My DS10 also likes me to stay in the room while he reads and I have had to adapt this recently as he kept expecting me to stay until he fell asleep. We don't go up until about 8.30 so by the time he sleeps it's around 9.30.

I think this is a good suggestion.

I think one of the adjustments as a parent that you have to make when your children grow into teenagers is that’s it’s not ‘adults vs children’ any more, they are growing into young adults who occupy the house just as much as you do. You can’t just stick them in bed at 7pm any more and have your evening free! It can be difficult if you and your husband are used to your evenings alone together, but there are benefits too because they grow into young people who are interesting to be around and to chat to.

As others have said, those are extraordinarily early bedtimes for a pre-teen and a teen. I'm surprised the 14-year-old even has a bedtime. And that your 11-year-old asks you to put her back to bed. Surely they should be granted considerably more autonomy at their ages?

I would tell the older girl that she can choose when to go to bed and move the younger one's bedtime to 9:00 or 9:30, preparing her to make her own choice in a year or so. I do think it's lovely that you have some time at the end of the day to chat with each one, but I'd be wary of infantilising them.

Also, going to bed later doesn't mean they would spend the evening watching TV. They could read or listen to podcasts or whatever else they want to do in the evening.

I was internally groaning thinking wow you should see how late my kids of a similar age stretch bedtimes to. Feeling a bit reassured seeing most parents saying theirs go to bed a lot later too! My almost 11 year old is in bed at 8.30pm on a school night but rarely is asleep before 9pm. She’s up at around 7.30am. That’s 10.5 hours which is adequate though. My 14 year old rarely sleeps before 11pm (he does have ADHD though and finds it hard to switch off earlier) but doesn’t wake until 8.30am weekdays or nearer 10am on the weekend so is getting at least 9.5 hours sleep which again is adequate for his age.

Jeezo those are incredibly early bed times.

My DD 12 is at football till 8pm and scouts till 930pm.

Most nights she goes up to bed at 9pm anc us asleep by 10pm.

She hasn't gone to bed at 730pm since she was about age 5/6.

I've taught a long time. Secondary. I know how important sleep is, but I also know that sleep patterns are different for teens.
Ds is 15. Weekday lights out are, theoretically 10-11. He's up at 7. At his age, I was watching TV quietly until 12. Aced gcses.
Dd is 13. Lights out10. She likes to get up at 6, so she can do whatever she does for school.

Me: sleep by 10. Up at 530. Work harder than born my kids. Have more stamina than the pair of them.

Oh, and ds now watches what we watch. Thought I'd hate it, but it's the only time he actually speaks to us.

Those bedtimes are wild to me my 14 year old is out on school nights till 9pm doing activities so doesn’t get to bed till 10.30 she still
has 9 hours sleep and I have never had to get her up since she started y5 she’s y10 too.

Mine are 12 and 14 and make their own bedtimes. The house is quiet by 10/10.30 so they naturally go to bed around then. No problems with them getting up in the mornings. Even our 7 year old is only in bed by 8 and can read until shes properly tired.

They need to start arranging their own evenings which will give you and DH time to yourselves. Ours can come and hang out with us if they want to but mostly enjoy time on their own.

Ha ha yes this is so true.
We’re generally happy to have them around in the evening but occasionally put something really boring on tv so they wander off and leave us alone 😂😂

Agree with previous posters that bedtimes are way too early. Allow your kids to find their own sleeping rhythm - they are old enough now! They may require some coaxing to get out of bed in the morning but that doesn’t mean they aren’t getting enough sleep.
My DD nearly 9 is a night owl. Struggled for
a while with a policy of lights out between 8-8.30, she would come back downstairs most nights saying she couldn’t sleep. Now she’s upstairs reading by 8 with lights off by 9
and she doesn’t struggle to get to sleep as she has the freedom within that hour to decide when she’s had enough. She’ll often be up later on weekends.
if you are not keen on evening tv maybe get a jigsaw out that you can all do together, and have a chat about the day at the same time?