To be annoyed that dh referred to us as poor.

[Maisykitten]

hi everyone,

dh and I have some ‘tricky’ finances at the moment. Our business went bust when Covid kicked in and we were left deeply in debt (100k now but more at the start ). We have both managed to get good salaries jobs and we’ve got on top of everything.

we have a small mortgage of 38k on a house worth 300k and all of our bills are paid. Definitely not remortgaging to clear the debt- the house is our security!!

anyway in a conversation dh referred to us as ‘poor’. I have a real issue with that. I agree that we’re in high levels of debt but we aren’t poor. After we’ve paid our mortgage, bills and living costs inc contractual debt payments, we’re left with £2800, much of which goes on extra debt payments.

i think it’s tone deaf to call us poor. I don’t feel poor, in fact i thank my lucky stars everyday that we’re able to dig ourselves out of the hole we are in,

do you agree?

I agree @Maisykitten - with such a small mortgage you are right. Even if your debts were added to the mortgage, it’s comparatively low with the equity in the house.

I think "stressful" is probably a key word here.

it wasn’t a week’s holiday was it? 1 night at a push. The one where cancelling because of 1 year old

oh sorry to confuse… wrong thread! 😆

We do try and allow ourselves some treats. I realised that self flagellating was not the way to go, I’ve moved past the shame now, I just want to pay it off BUT I don’t think that’s our lives should be devoid of any joy in the meantime

It’s all relative, many would consider you well off!

op have you spoken with your dh since then?

Is it just a difference in perception? His idea of poor is different to yours. Neither of you are wrong

Not really. I’m not going to get into conflict with him over it

Good grief, £2,800 a month is way more than I've ever earned in a month, before having to worry about bills etc, let alone having that much left over!

It's all subjective, isn't it @Maisykitten ?

I don't think you're poor as you have options, thanks to your capacity to earn money, your capacity to turn up (or turn down) debt payments and the assets you own.

If you were literally backed into the corner with no power to support any change and no capacity to earn more or generate better results, then I think you're poor.

Over extended, perhaps. But not poor.

In your position, with the debt, I’d feel asset rich (the house), but cash poor. 🤷‍♀️

You are definitely not poor. 110k on mostly 0% interest + a 38k mortgage when you earn £110k joint is peanuts.

This is a perfect example of the point I made to you earlier @safariled. This comment had no positive intent behind it whatsoever. You were just trying to make the OP feel worse. Give it a break.

Oh FGS, if you were comfortably paying off a mortage of 138k on a 300k house with 2800 left over a month all these people would not be calling you poor. Which is exactly your situation!

As long as the debt is not on a higher interest rate than the mortgage (which you've clarified it isn't), then it's exactly the same. The fact that this debt came from a company going bust means psychologically it's a bit harder as you actually had that money at some point and lost it, rather than borrowing it in the first place. You've got to make your peace with that - it sounds like you might have but your DH might not be there yet.

If it was a 138k mortgage instead, would you feel this need to plough everything spare into early repayments btw? Not saying it's not the sensible thing to do, but again, it's just a matter of perspective.

Thank you. The other debts are at a higher rate than mortgage with the exception of the 0% ones. Some are 6-7% with the ‘nasty’ one at 16% ( I know) but we are dealing with it

Then you are cash poor. Meaning that you haven't got much cash after paying back debts

what? i immediately realised a mistake and apologised to the op for confusion and op thanked me

goodness, you sound very tense!

Personally, I’d say actual poverty is either being unable to afford necessities, or you’re absolutely out of money once necessities are paid (so never able to build up a buffer, never able to do anything fun or generous or just because).

You’re in a lot of debt but able to afford to service it and live and plenty left over, therefore not poor. However, so much of poverty is about how it feels, and some people are more sensitive to that. He was most likely making an emotional statement, not a factual one.

It sounds like you’ve got a very clear head about the debt. It’s not a nice thing to have hanging around but you’ve got a good plan to solve it, you’re accepting that this limits your lifestyle for a while but also know you’ll need some treats in order to stick at it for several years. You’ve found a balance that feels okay so it’s a solved problem, in your mind, and doesn’t need to cause too much worry.

Your dh, on the other hand, might be having a more emotional reaction to it. Perhaps he’s finding the debt more of a constant cause of anxiety, or continuing to carry shame about it, I don’t know. He might not have come to terms with the lifestyle limitations and is feeling resentful about that. For some people, having to say no to anything feels like poverty; sometimes it’s a specific sacrifice that’s too much. For example, I’m happy to buy almost exclusively second hand clothes and eat mostly lentils and rice but I hate saying no to social stuff for lack of money. Others would be the opposite. Maybe he’s struggling with a sacrifice that doesn’t feel like a sacrifice to you.

If most of the debt is low interest and you’re already meeting the required repayments, you could decide to pay it off more slowly without serious negative effect. If your dh can manage a useful conversation about money then it might help to ask him about the poor comment and whether he’s happy with the current strategy or would prefer to keep a bit more of your income back for discretionary spending now.

but it doesn’t need to be conflict op

you could just say that you’ve been thinking about his comment and wonder if that’s really how he feels or whether he just said it flippantly. And go from there

Before people latch on to your 16% figure, that's only 5k of the debt all up that's on more than 0% you said above, right? So with your excess, that's cleared in 2 months.

You just pay down the rest as much as possible while it's at 0%. You need a plan for when that rate ends, but hopefully you can put that into a mortgage if necessary. At 110k income and 50% LTV that should not be a problem. Have you stress-tested what your monthly repayments would look like if it was all mortgage?

Yes, you realised it was the wrong OP afterwards, but that makes no difference to the fact there was zero kind intent behind your comment. I wouldn't say I'm tense, I'm just tired of you dominating threads with question after question which are intended to drag the OP down.

I wouldn't class you as poor by any means if I am understanding your position correctly. so you are in your late 40's, you have a house worth £300,000 with an outstanding mortgage of £38,000 and debts from the business of £100,000 giving a total debt of £138,000 against assets of £300,000? And your disposable income, after servicing debts is roughly £2,500 (sorry not re-reading all the postings again).

I can see this is a stressful situation for you, there is no denying that but your current income gives you a good chance to clear this off relatively quickly if you commit to a few leaner years but you are NOT poor. Poor is not having any assets, and not having enough money to turn on the heating or feed yourself.

You have had a challenging time that has hit you through no fault of your own as no one could have reasonably predicted the Covid pandemic. Your husband probably feels poor, he has presumably worked hard in his business venture and feels gutted at the loss and in comparison he may feel poorer given all the efforts that you put in.

it literally had nothing to do with this thread at all!

We’re fixed for 4 more years by which point we’ll only have a couple of years left