Thread 8 Starmer : Cat fur on new clothes

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5157500-thread-7-starmer-cats-and-conferences?page=40&reply=138415767

Absolutely.

For me who has always been a voting floater and for all intents and purposes politically homeless these threads have always been a safe space for me to discuss what I agree and disagree with and not in an environment whereby the leader of the party could stab someone live in Tv and people still stay "but he got X done".

Thank you for not posting a link to the photo of Robert Jenrick. Some things could never be unseen.

Some interesting stuff from Labour this morning on benefits for long term sickness. Cuts anticipated.

What that actually means is anyone’s guess before the budget, but I did find it a bit notable prior to the election that Labour did not challenge the Tories on the changes they were intending to make, and the use of ai to monitor recipients accounts. One to watch I think

It would absolutely depend how they do it.
Getting disabled people into the workforce is achievable but there are ways to go about it.
Just reducing benefit support doesn't work.
Government could help employers with the extra costs of supporting disabled employees.
Increasing entitlement to flexible working would help people into the workforce (not just disabled people).
Tapering the carers allowance threshold would enable carers to take on paid work alongside caring responsibilities.

I'm not going to follow the rage bait line of "reducing the cost of disability benefits"="forcing all disabled people into full time work"

It’s the old Tory policy of using ai to monitor recipients. My view is that this is literally too an attractive policy for them not to do, because ai is very cheap to run compared to thousands of civil servants investigating. It will also be hard for people to game the system or indeed use cash

From the Times

The legislation will allow fraud investigators to compel banks to hand over information about people’s finances if there is a suspicion they are claiming benefits they are not entitled to.
It will also give them powers of “search and seizure” of people’s property in cases involving organised criminal gangs that are exploiting the benefits system.
The crackdown is designed to save the taxpayer £1.6 billion over the next five years by tackling fraud and reducing overpayments. Starmer will say that he wants to ensure that “every penny” of taxpayers’ money is spent on Labour’s pledge to “rebuild public services” ….
Banks will be required to tell the benefit system if people have savings of more than £16,000, the cut-off point for claiming benefits, or have been abroad for more than the four weeks allowed for universal credit claimants. Inspectors will then investigate and seek to recover overpayments.

That sucks! I got banned from a group I was active in several years ago for being GC and I'm still upset by it!
Makes me appreciate the MN moderation even more

😂

They are also going to "crack down" on benefit fraud.

Labour is talking about saving £1.6 billion through tackling fraud over the next 5 years. I do hope theyvare also going to do something to ensure that the several billions of pounds of benefits that go unclaimed each year are taken up.

As for getting disabled people back to work, we'll good luck with that. Employers queue up to employ disabled people and are always so keen to make the adjustments needed.

I am not saying benefit fraud shouldn't be tackled. I am not saying that the government shouldn't be looking at why so many more people are ending up on disability benefits. But it is all low hanging populist fruit in my opinion.

I am almost done with Labour at this point tbh. And I await the influx of benefit bashing threads on MN.

Yes, I am a bit pissed off. My DH predicted this would happen. I so wanted him to be wrong.

@itsgettingweird voting floater! 🤣🤣🤣

You really made laugh, thanks.

What happened to @serendipityjane? I feel like she'd have good knowledge about this.

bomb I think it sounds like an update to Proceeds of Crime Act to specifically cover benefit fraud and is a good idea. Banks already know how to deal with this sort of thing from complying with money laundering regs.

Benefit fraud is quite a big problem e.g.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/members-britains-biggest-benefit-fraud-gang-jailed-combined-total-more-25-years

Aww

When I wrote my previous post I was trying to think how to say I was worried about the potential for an increase in hostility to benefit claimants.

I think Labour are focussed on minimising losses to fraud overall (see also covid) and want to go after the large gangs like the ones I linked, I really hope they are careful in their messaging about this.

Crack down on the organised gangs, for sure. But I can see a lot of innocent people getting their benefits suspended too with the scheme where banks tell DWP if savings go over the limit etc.

Yes that's true, I had not thought of that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgny3vm6d1o

Go Julian Dunkerton!

I really hope they are careful in their messaging about this

Yeah, I am reserving my final judgement until I see this.

Yes. This is the unspoken thing. And the legislation has arrived very quickly. There had been a bill already to deal with fraud by the Tories, but that never got through the House. I would bet quite good money this is largely the same bill, albeit that the spin is on big gangs.

Lucky you.
A very die hard story friend of mine is still on "Boris got the vaccines" and "they are all the same".

Neither it seems are false. But it's all optics and I prefer people who look past the looking glass and love these threads.

Alistair Campbell agrees with you and I @BIossomtoes !

And I think in this gap there has been maybe just a lack of that strategic communication, where you understand that in government – which is much, much, much harder than opposition – you have to all the time be devising, executing and narrating your strategy, what the government is for, what the government is trying to do, where the government is trying to get to.
And when that doesn’t happen, then what tends to happen – particularly with a pretty hostile media which is not averse to double standards in the way it treats Labour viz a viz the Conservatives – that is when you get stuff filled with clothes and Sue Gray’s salary and all the behind-the-scenes stuff.
If you have that clear, consistent, strategic narrative, that is relentlessly being put out there, then that is when you give the country – which, by the way, doesn’t want to have politics in its face the whole time – that sense of this is what the government is about, this is what the government is trying to do.

took a few days off MN and couldn't find the thread. seems i missed all the excitement...

His understanding and clarity around this is why the right wing parties hate him so much, because they can't better him at narratives 😂

Maybe Starmer should bring him back. I'm guessing the EU stance remains the sticking point

Yvette Cooper 👏

"Don't anyone tell me that was protest.... It was arson! It was racism! It was thuggery! It was crime!"

Haven't posted for a while as my health isnt great at the moment. The respectful diversity of opinion on this thread is great. Really enjoy reading the updates & opinions. I find some of the 'frothing' threads for want of a better word frankly depressing/alarming.
Regarding my view of how labour have done - all i can say is kind of how i expected. With the dire state of public finances, the pledge on not raising income, NI & VAT (without which i think they wouldnt have won) & the statements on fiscal responsibility, i think the search for savings was predictable. Like many i think wfa should be means tested, but the threshold needs to be higher Glasses-gate etc. Well disapointing, but to me not on the scale of tory corruption. They desperately need to improve their communications strategy & push a cohrent, consistent mesage. I think the budget cant come soon enough. At least then the debate will be about actual policy not wild speculation.
I am a lifelong labour voter, not 'cos i think they're great. They are simply the only (marginally) progressive viable option on the table where i am. Given the state of things (& my naturally pessimistic nature) i wasnt expecting much & havent got it. Would i still vote for them - yes. Do i think they are a better option than the tories/reform - yes. Does their policy plan closely match my ideals - no, but im a pragmist and go with the best fit even if i have issues with some aspects. Hoping that the bad news has been foreshadowed & there are no more nasty surprises in budget, but we'll see.

I hope you are on the mend Owlbookend

https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1838528397263196368

Yvette Cooper, "It's so long overdue.. This government will treat violence against women and girls as the national emergency it really is"

@Owlbookend good post. I hope you feel better soon