What's True Pussycat? - Trump Thread #134

[Spandauer]

Non-fake, stable genius thanks to @Crucible for the new thread title.

Seniors' special today.*
They’re eating the dogs!
They’re eating the cats!
They’re eating the pets!...
So do you want fries with that cat? (*Apologies to non-MAGA seniors)

In other news, the swing states continue to be too close to call and it looks like it's going to be a nail-biting, buttock-clenching, hand-wringing 50 days to the election. (or thereabouts)
Increase your anxiety with this handy countdown 😭
https://days.to/until/election-day-in-us

Previous thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5134172-its-not-over-until-the-cat-lady-sings-trump-thread-133

Forgot to add the NY Times headline

I love your suggestion that Vance is the son Trump never had. Although genetically, Trump was never going to produce any offspring with Vance's intelligence.
Vance's vote-face on Trump is totally to use trump's voter base to advance his own career

So another person with a gun near Trump:-

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/clyvxxzzjqxt

I have to wonder if it’s Trump’s team releasing all these details. Given the number of guns in the US I’d suspect this sort of thing happens far more often, we’re just not told about it. Security services/law enforcement often don’t make details public for fear of copycats, and I don’t believe for a second that other former Presidents/Presidential candidates haven’t had similar incidents intercepted.

I don't think you should wonder at all, it's certainly his team leaking. It will make him look like a hero to his fans. Massive eye roll...

Sorry I meant to add, I agree that Vance is what he wishes his son's were, morally. I reckon Ivanka is the most like him. Eurgh.

Handy that this "assassination attempt" will deflect that the Trump campaign organised parking off site for this rally and shuttle bused attendees to the rally, but hundreds were left stranded when the same number of shuttles did not appear to return rally goers to their cars, parked a 2hour walk away

Can't leave early if there aren't any buses!

Finding it so difficult to stay positive as the days tick by. How can the result be on knife edge?

We're off to the US today for a short visit with some of DH's family. Thankfully the family are all vehement non-Trumpers but I'm going to have to keep my mouth zipped when I'm out and about! 🤐 (I could channel SuperWoman and wear my uniform Fuck Trump t-shirt under my everyday clothes. 🦸‍♀️)

I agree. I cannot imagine why/how it is such a close race. I saw a poster on another thread say that she has loads of family in the US and they are all voting for the brown blob

Listening to him lately, I am aghast... he is more incoherent, racist, mysogynistic, and nasty every day that passes.

Have a good trip.

We were at DisneyWorld in April and stepped into the Hall of Presidents show to escape the heat (it’s basically a history of all the US Presidents with waxworks and voiceovers) At the end of the show they name check each one in order with a spotlight falling on each model as they are named. The only one that got a response from the audience was Trump with a handful of very vocal visitors cheering loudly 🙄

That being said, the concerns of people willing to vote Trump need to be confronted. The Hillary C tactic of demonising Trump voters didn’t work then and won’t work now, people need to feel engaged and listened to and only then can we find the common ground that the majority stand on.

@CaveMum yes I think that's the crux. As I read these threads my algorithm is affected in that I now get YouTube videos of Trump supporters being questioned by men with big microphones at Trump events, all with titles like 'Maga gets schooled.' None of this is in any way helpful. It pushes folks into corners and humiliation is not the way to engage. I hate this approach. It's usually more about the person holding the mic trying to build his own cred online, it's not about changing anything. Calling a group of people maggots isn't going to bring them out of their silo.

Trump is undeniably bad.
But the Democrats are sticking to some really, really dumb policies
that push people and common sense away.

Its also hard for us in the UK to realise HOW polarised the US media are.

The New York Times never covered Sam Brinton's theft convictions for example.

What are the dumb policies @Talkinpeace?

Umm… so this just happened

(We did not alter the audio)

https://x.com/TheTNHoller/status/1845979910357004562

😂😅

He is so WEIRD with music and flapping his arms about! Time to say goodbye, too right!!!!

I never hear a Trump supporter define an actual policy that they're against. I think in general the problem with reaching them and addressing their concerns is that for the most part, other than generalised stuff that's often false, they very rarely say anything that actually defines what democrats have done or are planning on doing, where Dems could say, we hear you, let's do it this way instead. I'm genuinely interested if someone has some insight.

What could be classified as a dumb policy that pushes people with common sense away @Talkinpeace?

As for Sam Brinton, I mean, not to sound glib, but that's really not an example of anything, let alone polarisation. I'd say the problem there is more that the right wing media has dedicated lots of time to that (because Brinton is trans or non-binary) and none to Kushner's Saudi billions and the Serbia hotel deal.
Not to mention Trump seeming to have taken 10 million from Egypt. In general, reputable media has been unable to keep up with the depth and breadth of the Trump orbit criminality and corruption. Why would they devote coverage to small theft by a clearly ill person who was fired immediately? They certainly haven't been soft on Biden or his administration overall.

I'm not an American voter, and if I was I wouldn't vote for Trump/Vance (except maybe to win the Turner Prize) but I am guessing she means arguments about trans healthcare (especially for children), trans peoples rights to use the bathroom of their choosing (and also changing rooms, DV shelters, prisons etc).
There is a special board for discussions of that nature. But it is a bit crazy making that the Trump campaign is so full of things that just don't make sense. Not just outright lies (politicians have always done that) but a complete disregard for the truth that feels like gaslighting or some horrible dada-ist nightmare where they are just reciting meaningless strings of words rather than anything that makes sense. And it is very easy to point at Trump supporters who must know deep down that what Vance is saying about cats and dogs is a lie, but accept it because its "emotionally true", or because they choose to interpret it as referring to their own concerns. That is actually a real threat to democracy because democracy relies on language having meaning and a commitment to at least try to live in the same shared reality.

That was a long rant. But basically you have all the Trump/MAGA crazy. And part of the Democrat response to that is to say, "hah hah look at these nonsensical liars. Also though a woman with a penis is still a woman". (Insert David Brent joke about "what if she rapes you"). If reality depends only on what feels right emotionally to the individual, and words mean what you want them to mean - then that's a major line of attack against team Trump gone. I still don't think they are anything as crazy as the Trump team. But its really odd to create an Archilles heal when the stakes are so high. It means both blue and red teams are pointing at each other and saying "if they make you believe absurdities they can make you commit atrocities". The weird reality defying nature of modern politics is bigger than Trump (see also Russian propaganda), and I wish the more responsible adults (I would put Kamala in this category) would fight it by prioritising truthfulness as an important value to hold someone to. Otherwise they both end up competing to see who can gaslight America the most. And Trump has an advantage there.

@Wallaw Maybe someone like Riley Gains? She is a Trump supporter and her biggest issue is the inclusion of transwomen in women's sports that she blames on Democrat policies (in particular changes Joe Biden tried to push through). You don't have to agree with her (I think Trump is a much bigger threat to women's rights) but she is very clear about what her issues are. I think people like that get dismissed with "why are you so worried about drag queens/lies about cat litter trays in public schools." Some of the right wing media did talk nonsense about cat litter trays (its actually in their interest to create more confusion, discord and spread lies) but that doesn't make it OK for left wing media to use that to dismiss everything actual Trump voters say as crazy. That is just helping the chaos and disinformation spreaders and political polarisation. And that helps Trump/whatever worse thing comes after him.

I get that, but imo - and I'll say right here that I'm not in agreement with most of the trans stuff on MN, in fact, I've hidden that board. That said, while I do respect that it's not a simple topic and that many people have strong feelings about it. But when you take out the right wing media ginning up of the issue (i.e. Harris's policy on trans care for California inmates, which right or wrong, was not the way it is being portrayed), it has such a small impact on the average person's life compared to abortion rights and the ability to have healthcare or a strong labour union, I find it hard to believe many people are voting based on that. Right before the UK election I saw some statistics on how big an issue it was for UK voters and it was very low on the list.

We're American and have a house in a small town in a blue, but not very blue, state. Our town has a mix of wealthy summer people, retired people (mostly from very high flying careers with a surprising number of foreign service/diplomats/judges), people who moved young families out of cities during and post-covid, and sizeable contingent of blue collar/working class people. Obviously this is anecdotal, but I know quite a few from all sectors and the only actual policy concerns I've heard from any of the Trump contingent has been around guns and immigration. There is some general talk around 'wokeness' but not one of them has mentioned the trans issue.

This is an interesting look at the genesis of some of the trans stuff
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/16/us/politics/transgender-conservative-campaign.html

Yes, the policies that allow Richard / Rachel Levine to promote the sterilisation of children.
That allow males dropped from the men's sport team to grow their hair and join the girls team
That allow male rapists to demand to share a cell with females

Biden has embraced gender ideology. Harris appears to be much cooler on it.

I have not voted for Trump, but Riley Gaines and Chloe Cole are clear advocated for women's rights (well some of them)
and Democrat candidates are unable to reassure them.
That is a failure of policy.

According to HCR he stood there wafting for 39 minutes !!!!!!

@Wallaw I do understand your perspective. But... its like saying the pen in the gif is red. It doesn't affect your life in any way at all, but its a lie. Saying "well, politicians should be able to say things that aren't true and also, other people should say things that aren't true or they aren't good people" is not a good road to go down. The pen doesn't matter at all, but if I am insisting that its red and all right thinking people should agree with me, you are less likely to agree with me when I insist Covid is dangerous, that taking the vaccine is a good idea, that a hurricane is coming and we should evacuate, that all votes will be counted fairly. And that's BEFORE you have deliberate agents of chaos trying to reduce confidence in democracy from the inside (Trump) and from the outside (Putin). I know that to you, saying transwomen are women isn't the same as saying the pen is red. But to a lot of people, it is. I tried very hard to see it like that, the same way that I tried very hard as a child at a Catholic school to believe that the bread became Christ's literal body when a man said some words. I couldn't do it. Maybe that's a failure in me. But I can't. I think trans people deserve compassion. But making myself believe something I don't think is true is the fastest route to cynicism there is.
I agree completely, it really isn't the major issue to most voters. But what is a major issue is the idea that "both sides are as bad as each other", its one of the things which people respond with when people criticise Trump. Its worse than that though because they really are pushing the idea that reality/the difference between truth and lies doesn't matter. It feeds on cynicism. Its easy to laugh at Trump's "gaffs" and repeat them endlessly - but they don't matter if you think reality is what you want it to be. And its not just this election - its the one after this and the one after that.

@Talkinpeace yes, I think also Harris has changed the focus in other ways. Before it felt like the more Trump acted out, the more hysterically the Democrat message was that he was evil/people voting for him were deranged. It made sense to feel like that but it played into their hands. It felt at one point like the left and right were determined to drive each other mad. Recharacterising Vance as "weird" rather than trying to pretend he was a literal demon etc is actually putting the debate on different, more sensible grounds IMO.
And it matters a lot to me, because this stuff spreads and if crazyness as a political tool works in America it will be used more and more in other places too. We don't need US democracy turning onto an exquisite corpse on a hill thanks.

Hope the gift link works

Trump sways and bops to music for 39 minutes in bizarre town hall episode

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/10/14/trump-music-sways-town-hall/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzI4ODc4NDAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzMwMjYwNzk5LCJpYXQiOjE3Mjg4Nzg0MDAsImp0aSI6IjhiMTg0YzljLTMzNzEtNGU0YS05N2JjLWZjODAxZGFhY2QyOSIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9wb2xpdGljcy8yMDI0LzEwLzE0L3RydW1wLW11c2ljLXN3YXlzLXRvd24taGFsbC8ifQ.pyvRxp5n3WOTnCOWjyKNFh1y73JJFJf7B-qB-nKRbns&itid=gfta