Help me make sense of how I feel? Transgender person in the loo.

[ScottishLottie]

I think of myself as very liberal - very 'live and let live', love is love and people should be absolutely free to be whomever they want to be.

Went into our local city on Fri last week and noticed a higher amount of transgender folk (specifically man to woman), socialising in the area. "Good on them!" I thought. Love living and working in a society where they're able to do this. I was actually interested and looked up why there might have been so many more trans people around and apparently there's some sort of 'First Friday' trans event whereby trans people congregate in trans-friendly bars and restaurants in the area on the first Friday of the month.

Fast forward to the next night and I was in the city again, having taken by 15 yr old DD and her friend to the theatre.

On coming out of the theatre, she needed the loo before we left, so her and the friend went in and I waited outside. As I was waiting, a transgender woman (quite a big, strong, butch-looking person underneath the dress and the makeup) entered the female bathroom and I had a completely visceral reaction. I was horrified that DD and friend were in a space where they might be a bit more vulnerable and they should be absolutely safe in a female-only environment.

Nothing happened of course, but I was surprised and ashamed that I felt the way I did.

What is the reason behind this? Why do I have opinions and feelings that I wasn't aware of? I feel awful but want to understand why I felt this way?

Because a man was in a female space
There’s nothing wrong with you at all

why do you feel awful and ashamed?

First poster nailed it. You know that's a man and he shouldn't be in a women's space. It's natural to feel that way, you shouldn't be ashamed.

But I genuinely want to embrace all walks of life and for people to live as their mist authentic selves. So if someone who was born a man wants to live as a woman, I have no issues.

However, when it came to feeling as though my daughter might have been in a (hypothetical) vulnerable situation, my protective instinct kicked in and I don't know why. I wouldn't have felt the same had it been a woman who had transitioned to a man (although I assume they would then use the gents!) or if there had been a particularly manly/butch looking woman.

Because toilets are where women remove their clothing to expose their genitals behind a saloon style door.

So you're instincts tell you to be cautious of how vulnerable you are, and when you're exposed like that the main thing you're vulnerable to is a sexual assault, usually committed by people with penises, which is what you sensed when the person came in.

It's your brain being sensible and cautious and anyone trying to police people's instinctive fear is fighting a losing battle. You don't control what you're afraid of.

It doesn't make sense in my head other than apparently I secretly fear or don't like men I don't know

It's a normal reaction. It's because you have a MAN in your space. But we are being brainwashed to think we are a problem for having a natural instinctive reaction.

It's knowing what men are capable of. That's the reaction you're having.

You have millennia of instinct coming into play

What does live as a woman mean?
People cannot change sex unless you buy into gender ideology

TRAs are trying to make it acceptable for men to access female only spaces by putting a dress on or saying they identify as women
the issue is, they are not women and your spidey senses are telling you to keep your guard up for your sake and your daughters

this is the reality of trans identifying men being in your space

No it is not about about all men just those men who break down boundaries. I was recently at a funeral with a creepy man aged 80 odd in attendance, who behaves as a creep does saying inappropriate sexual things to me about mine and my husbands sex life.

I had no problem with the scores of other men at the funeral but the creepy boundary breaker set my internal disgust monitor off as he has done on every other occasion I’ve met him.

Reversing the situation How do men feel about trans women entering their toilets ?

It's ok to want safe single sex spaces for women. You can also respect people's wishes to dress and call themselves what they like.

It is a male in a female space.. Putting trans before the word women does not make one a woman.. There should be specific unisex toilets that trans people can use.

@ScottishLottie it's really worth getting involved in more debates about this subject on here. I used to feel exactly like you and saw myself as a real liberal.
I now have my eyes opened to this.
What's happening here regards shared spaces is wrong.

Trouble is, living their life as their 'authentic self' whatever that is doesn't come without repercussions on others. This is the problem with it.

This.

The vast majority of sex crimes are male on female. Your reaction is normal and healthy.

Fairplay for women have some interesting data on the transgender males’ offending:

https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/

Why are you asking yourself if you’re being unreasonable for not wanting men in the loo with your female child rather than asking yourself why you are going along with men presenting as women (whether dysphoria or fetish) being accepted as women?

What does “live as a woman” mean to you, and at what point after putting on a dress and makeup does a man cease to present a potential threat when entering a women’s toilet?

If a man was dressed like me today (jeans, t-shirt, no makeup) and he said “I’m a woman” before entering the toilet, would that be ok?

If not, why does putting on a different item of clothing stereotypically associated with women make a difference?

How would feel about that transwoman getting dressed in the communal changing room at David Lloyds?

Naked along with their male genitals on show along with young girls and women?

Their policy is to let people change in the changing room of the "gender" they identify.

How would you feel about a man identifying as woman joing your young daughter on girl guide trips? And the GG not telling you?

Visceral reactions? And why do you think that is?

This is you seeing that the Emperor has indeed no clothes on! You will see it everywhere now, and be amazed how you were brainwashed by the #BeKind Brigade.

Good luck on your journey OP.

You had a completely normal reaction to seeing a man in a woman’s only space. You’ve been conditioned to believe that the feelings of this man and others like him are more important than yours, and that your boundaries don’t matter.

As for telling yourself that there was no risk? You KNOW that men are a risk to women and girls. Any man that makes himself at home in a female space is committing a predatory act in my opinion.

Let the scales fall from your eyes!

So if someone who was born a man wants to live as a woman, I have no issues.

And when a man living as a woman can guarantee they won't commit sexual assault, I'll have no issues with them using female toilets either.

Until then, I'll be cautious.

I think gender is completely unnecessary and causes so many problems and debates. I wish it could be completely eradicated. You have a biological sex and that is (practically) always male or female.

People should be able to dress how they want, date who they want, have whatever cosmetic surgery they want without the need for gender.

I think changing / toileting facilities should be designed in a way that they are self contained and can be use by either sex. There should not be space where people can feel threatened or fearful. For areas that are already designated male/female this should be their biological sex. When these facilities are updated then they should be replaced with the unisex/self contained design.

Because

• humans (especially females) have evolved to correctly recognise sex irl most of the time
• humans can't change sex
• male offending patterns don't change depending on what males wear.

These men who claim to be women are just that - men it's not mean to want single sex spaces. Single sex spaces are safer for women & girls.

Ask yourself this question first.

What is the difference between an obvious male, in male clothing, going into the women's toilets, and an obvious male in women's clothing?

I'm very interested in your answer.

I've just spent a good chunk of his morning crying for Gisele Pelicot, Rebecca Cheptegi, Barbara Nomakhosi and Malgorzata. I don't know any of them, I don't know any women personally who've suffered so horrificly at the hands of men, but I feel devastated for these women and for all of us women.

This shit is in our bones. As a pp said you've got milennia of data in your genes telling you that men can pose a threat to women's safety. Don't talk yourself out of having boundaries and support your daughter to honour hers.