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Parents don’t want to raise children anymore

255 replies

radiator2 · 03/09/2024 21:06

As some of you may be aware some children have been arrested in relation to the murder of an 80yr old. The mother of one of the rioters has also jetted off on holiday with no regard for the fact her child was due in court. While these are two quite extreme cases they seem to represent a bigger issue and I feel like nobody can be bothered to parent nowadays. I work around children and I see it daily, parents unbothered with discipline or actually raising their kids. It feels like some parents have no clue what their kids are up to meanwhile kids younger and younger are committing crimes and getting in huge trouble at school. I genuinely fear for the future with some of those in this generation of children and I can’t work out if more kids are just terrible people or if more parents have kids with no interest in raising them. I might be being a little dramatic but these kids don’t seem afraid or anything or to care what damage they cause

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KeebabSpider · 03/09/2024 23:42

Pantaloons99 · 03/09/2024 22:26

@Lucy25 there are of course crap parents and always have been. But we also have those trying really hard in very difficult economic circumstances.
Let's not forget the prevalence of Neurodivergent kids in mainstream school. Many of whom will be undiagnosed with no hope of getting assessed for years to come. The prevalence of ND kids is higher than anyone could imagine in my view. Many of these parents are called lazy and ineffectual.

Edited

I have read that there are more neurodivergent children because we have earlier assessments, the criteria has changed, the DSM has changed its diagnostic criteria etc. I've also read that lots of children go undiagnosed, and it's nigh on impossible to get early assessment and there are huge waiting lists. I've read too that there are both more neurodivergent children, and also that there are not more but they are more visible. I wonder.......

My experience of working in children's services with looked after children may of course bias my opinion, but the children who experienced the most neglect were the same children who went on to be assessed as having ASD. Psychiatrists themselves in their reports would state these children had possible ASD, possible attachment disorder, possible emergent EUPD. They had not one fucking clue what they were seeing in these children. Some of these children displayed psychopathic behaviour such as animal cruelty, arson and violence towards others. All were emotionally disregulated and lacked empathy. They had no respect for authority. More than once I had to stand idle and watch one of the kids kick and punch the police. The children who had been subject to domestic violence were overwhelming from MC families. SA and emotional harm overwhelmingly seemed to produce AsD profiles and EUPD type presentation. The children who had suffered physical abuse were more likely to display the behaviour most associated with ADHD and were mostly of lower socio economic backgrounds. The vast majority of those from lower socio economic background had not suffered significant physical abuse though but still had a range of behaviour more associated with ADHD.

I think we live in an age of extremes. On the one hand we see anxious parents who often feel guilt at leaving their DC in early childcare settings. On the one hand they ensure the children are never free of supervision, have jam packed diaries of activities and experiences on the other hand they have sub contracted the boring day to day parenting chores of toilet training, sleep training, dealing with socialisation and learning to others. They reserve the right to manage these aspects but not to deliver or directly undertake. These parents have no respect for child care workers and will not countenance that their child may be struggling or have behaviour falling short of what is acceptable. It's guilt and fear. These children are more likely to suffer depression and anxiety as teens.

On the other end of the extreme we have the children who the last Labour government deemed in meed of early intervention and family centres. Isolated children not in attendance at early years child care settings. Parents of Lower socio economic class who often lack skills, insight and education. Many are vulnerable themselves, or perhaps known to SS from their own childhood. They can be selfish and seemingly ambivalent about their own children. These children are more likely to be labelled or diagnosed as having SEN and to present difficulties early in their school career, because they display challenging behaviours.

Both extremes are not more or less engaged in the day to day lives of their children, having made the choice to be present emotionally. And its that early emotional attachment that is key to raising happy healthy successful young people, who show empathy towards others. The ever present non working parents were not more present emotionally.

I've worked with children from MC homes and children from economically deprived homes. Most parents will say in true honest consciousness they want what is best for their children. But somehow there is a disconnection between what they say and what they do, and few have the insight into themselves to fully appreciate they may lack a basic emotional intelligence, and none will admit to their narcissistic level of self interest. In an age of introspection and self improvement we are more isolated from others, and in being isolated we have no mirror to reflect our own image back to ourselves. If people are a product of society with our subjectivity sieved through and filtered through our relationships to others, we now see that greed, avarice, vanity, competition, and the cult of "self" is both given but also likely to be the unintended consequence of our being shaped by those relationships. So yeah......same problems, different causes, same magnitude? it will almost invariably get worse.

And back to this question....are there more children with SEN, neurodiverge, and other developmental conditions? If so, why? and no despite my experience I fully acknowledge that the vast majority of children with these conditions are being parented, but I'd argue there is a not too insignificant minority that do not have these conditions, but are harmed by their early life experiences of sub optimal parenting.

TomPinch · 04/09/2024 00:01

If phones have worsened attention spans (as seems likely) ADD etc traits will become more prominent as ADD children are less able to compensate than their predecessors were. Making school pupils do everything online really does not help.

That aside, I think neurodivergency hasn't increased, but it is more prominent as the number and renumeration for manual jobs has decreased. I have a hunch that being ADD / autistic and working on a production line in a factory is perhaps not as hard as being ADD / autistic and working in a call centre.

And in schools, marks used not to matter that much. If you didn't do well, there was still a path for you. It looks way, way, way tougher and more competitive now.

Lucy25 · 04/09/2024 00:02

@lololulu Think that’s it, it’s knowing, so you can understand and move forward.It’s good news you got the diagnosis, because it’s coming to terms with what you’ve been through and that there’s a reason, you learn differently.
I agree, the 90’s, so many children, were just left with no support, just wasn’t discussed Today, the waits, just to get assessed @Pantaloons99 has addressed, are too long, children aren’t getting the support they need and are just being written off.

Ozanj · 04/09/2024 00:07

TomPinch · 04/09/2024 00:01

If phones have worsened attention spans (as seems likely) ADD etc traits will become more prominent as ADD children are less able to compensate than their predecessors were. Making school pupils do everything online really does not help.

That aside, I think neurodivergency hasn't increased, but it is more prominent as the number and renumeration for manual jobs has decreased. I have a hunch that being ADD / autistic and working on a production line in a factory is perhaps not as hard as being ADD / autistic and working in a call centre.

And in schools, marks used not to matter that much. If you didn't do well, there was still a path for you. It looks way, way, way tougher and more competitive now.

ADHD manifests most frequently as ‘away with the fairies’ or ‘deep concentration’ - the zooming up and downstairs stereotype is extreme. It was the kind of personality that often found itself in academia in the past and coding now.

Galoop · 04/09/2024 00:13

grungey · 03/09/2024 21:45

Parents have never been more hands on and Involved, and aware of what their kids are doing. Children have never been more closely parented. No, kids are not committing crimes younger, statistics reflect that many acts that would previously have been dealt with by parental or authority punishments (physical
Chastisement) are now criminal offences (rightly so) Children murdering people ( in the U.K.) has always been and remains vanishingly low. There have been decades of parents unaware what their kids are getting up to. This generation are the most scrutinised, monitored, inhibited and assessed in recent history.

To summarise, your post is a load of bollocks. And maybe think about getting a different job.

I disagree with this, so many children are in nursery full time for long hours from a young age. Then they go to school and are in breakfast club and afterschool club. You can't be involved if you only see your child for an hour or two a day. Then add screens on top of that and minimal outside play. Something is going on and we need to wake up.

Galoop · 04/09/2024 00:16

MissyB1 · 03/09/2024 22:08

Yep this. I work in an infant school. The amount of parents who seem unable to do the basics such as teaching their kids to talk, use a toilet, eat a healthy diet, give them boundaries etc.. And no I'm not in a deprived area, it's very affluent. I'm talking about parents earning the kind of money I could only dream of, but they are clueless about bringing their kids up 🤷‍♀️

My cousin is a teacher and says this too, equally in an affluent area. She has noticed a huge difference in the last 10 years

SometimeSomewhere · 04/09/2024 00:27

I was a child in the 80s and teen in the 90s, growing up in a place where parents didn't do much parenting and didn't know what their kids were up to. Some terrible stuff happened that if it happened now would reach more people with social media. I'm not convinced things are any worse now than they used to be.

Most people I know are good and engaged parents with respectful children.

Lucy25 · 04/09/2024 00:29

SunQueen24 · 03/09/2024 21:44

Sorry, who’s trolling who? Not least I wasn’t in the minority on the other thread - posters can have a difference of opinion.

Every generation says this about the next. This generation are no more awful. There’s nothing to substantiate what you’re saying.

You are coming across as a troll.To say, most adults are full of superiority & are bitter and lonely!
Why, because you disagree with their opinion.
So it’s rather contradictory of you to say, posters can have a difference of opinion.

FumingTRex · 04/09/2024 00:29

I dont think parenting is getting worse or that parents are less bothered - just look at the number of threads criticising helicopter parenting, PFBs and wrapping kids in cotton wool.

At least we have contraception and abortion widely available now, meaning that most parents actually wanted their kids.

Galoop · 04/09/2024 00:31

SometimeSomewhere · 04/09/2024 00:27

I was a child in the 80s and teen in the 90s, growing up in a place where parents didn't do much parenting and didn't know what their kids were up to. Some terrible stuff happened that if it happened now would reach more people with social media. I'm not convinced things are any worse now than they used to be.

Most people I know are good and engaged parents with respectful children.

But the fact teachers are noticing this, proves that something is going on. It's probably a variety of factors, but there is something and it is scary to think what the next generation is going to be like

RoyallyEFFEDOFF · 04/09/2024 00:52

Social media plays a part. The videos, the criminals turned celebs glamourising this lifestyle
Go back 17 years ago, our phones weren’t up to par internet wise, using the mobile browser was slow and expensive
Most of us teens were using the family computer, which was in view of supervision. We weren’t gonna sit there in the dining room watching porn or listening to yet another drug dealer turned rapper talk about how much money they made in jail or how many people they stabbed
The phones these teenagers have nowadays have given them the internet literally at their fingertips, VPNS, private accounts, technology that allows apps to be hidden is just another step into this digital world. It’s fucking petrifying.

OnlyTheBravest · 04/09/2024 00:58

There has always been a small percentage of children who kill. However it definitely feels as though there is an increase in the lack of respect and accountability from some of the younger generation. Teachers have been saying for a while that they are struggling with discipline in schools.

Poorly behaved teens did not become like it overnight. 9 times out of 10 the blame lies with the parents and the children are just a reflection of their poor parenting.

Maybe the answer lies with increased support in primary schools for children identified with behaviour issues. It is woeful at the moment.

TomPinch · 04/09/2024 00:58

Ozanj · 04/09/2024 00:07

ADHD manifests most frequently as ‘away with the fairies’ or ‘deep concentration’ - the zooming up and downstairs stereotype is extreme. It was the kind of personality that often found itself in academia in the past and coding now.

True, but that's only a way of being that works if you can find something that fits you. Most neurodivergent children I know are simply forced into a mould that doesn't suit them. You can't be away with the fairies while working in a call centre.

LadyGabriella · 04/09/2024 01:02

What was the outcome of the young child in court due to be sentenced while his mother was off in Ibiza? I think that alone speaks for itself, and any jury that convicted a child so young for rioting - in the context of him having such a bad parental influence/upbringing- should be ashamed. That would say more about the governement and Jury that it does the child. Agree with you OP

SometimeSomewhere · 04/09/2024 01:05

But the fact teachers are noticing this, proves that something is going on. It's probably a variety of factors, but there is something and it is scary to think what the next generation is going to be like

I think the thing is the parents that weren't parenting years ago and didn't have a clue where their kids were, would have hit their kids back in the 80s/90s. They weren't good parents but they did have some control through fear. Not a good thing. So parenting was awful but kids behaved better. Kids still did terrible things when no one in authority was around but were more likely to behave at school to avoid the smacking at home.

Now, those similarly crap parents don't hit their kids as thankfully it's not longer acceptable, so the kids have no fear. That's a good thing in that children shouldn't be made to fear their parents, but it does mean that the kids of these shit parents don't behave because without fear, without the quick fix of a smack, the shit parents have no way of making their kids behave.

RoyallyEFFEDOFF · 04/09/2024 01:07

I think parents are burnt out tbh. There’s so much pressure. Add in other factors such as poor mental health, housing instability, poverty and addiction then it makes sense that parents aren’t able to focus 100% on their child, in some cases it probably seems the best thing to do to let them have constant access to social media and gaming as at least they know where their child is.

Galoop · 04/09/2024 01:13

OnlyTheBravest · 04/09/2024 00:58

There has always been a small percentage of children who kill. However it definitely feels as though there is an increase in the lack of respect and accountability from some of the younger generation. Teachers have been saying for a while that they are struggling with discipline in schools.

Poorly behaved teens did not become like it overnight. 9 times out of 10 the blame lies with the parents and the children are just a reflection of their poor parenting.

Maybe the answer lies with increased support in primary schools for children identified with behaviour issues. It is woeful at the moment.

Ha yeah right! My cousin teaches 5 year olds and there is a SEN kid there with severe issues. He is violent towards her and the other teachers, and children. He throws things, swears and hits. There's nothing they can do about it. What effect this is having on other kids I hate to think 😐

Thebaguette · 04/09/2024 01:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I agree

Pantaloons99 · 04/09/2024 01:30

@Galoop I'll guarantee that SEN kid is severely distressed and as pointed out will get sub optimal if any support. This goes back to other threads wherein we've debated how ridiculously unfit the curriculum is for our kids; all kids let alone SEN.
Autistic kids are often incredibly intelligent and having to sit through the absolute shite they're subjected to, sometimes by people they're more intelligent than, well, I'd want to smash the classroom up too.

This particular issue isn't a discipline or respect problem.

Cantthinkofonenow · 04/09/2024 01:36

Pantaloons99 · 03/09/2024 21:42

@samarrange I'm yet to encounter stories as disturbing as those from my younger years; Bulger, Stephen Lawrence.

100%

Galoop · 04/09/2024 01:37

Pantaloons99 · 04/09/2024 01:30

@Galoop I'll guarantee that SEN kid is severely distressed and as pointed out will get sub optimal if any support. This goes back to other threads wherein we've debated how ridiculously unfit the curriculum is for our kids; all kids let alone SEN.
Autistic kids are often incredibly intelligent and having to sit through the absolute shite they're subjected to, sometimes by people they're more intelligent than, well, I'd want to smash the classroom up too.

This particular issue isn't a discipline or respect problem.

I don't think in this case, this kid is in nappies and mother is on drugs and she also yells and swears at everyone. This child is 5. But yes, the school system is letting down everyone. But what is the answer? Teachers don't want to do the job anymore either, and who can blame them. If parents don't want to parent, probably in this case the mother has issues so can't anyway, and the teachers are at capacity then what hope is there. It's very depressing

Pantaloons99 · 04/09/2024 01:46

@Galoop yes I can see all sides of this. I certainly wouldn't want to teach. Teachers and schools need support and investment and the curriculum needs a complete overhaul. But probably isn't going to happen anytime soon. I even have sympathy for the mother here. There truly is nothing in terms of respite, guidance support for parents in these situations. Alot of these feckless parents need a bit of hope and support. ( Not all I appreciate).

TransformerZ · 04/09/2024 01:53

Galoop · 04/09/2024 01:13

Ha yeah right! My cousin teaches 5 year olds and there is a SEN kid there with severe issues. He is violent towards her and the other teachers, and children. He throws things, swears and hits. There's nothing they can do about it. What effect this is having on other kids I hate to think 😐

Can't she refuse to teach him?
It's not like she gets the chance anyway.
At least she can focus on the other kids.
What's the point of schools allowing this?

I know people that have gone private to avoid disruptive behaviour but what are other people's parents and teachers meant to do? Can't believe this goes on.

Shouldn't there be a special teacher for this kid?

Also, the kids that are not toilet trained why aren't they sent back home until the parent teaches them?

We need more private schools if this is what is happening in state schools now.

coxesorangepippin · 04/09/2024 02:01

There's no deterrent for kids these days

None at all

They have all the power

It's the wrong way round

Galoop · 04/09/2024 02:11

TransformerZ · 04/09/2024 01:53

Can't she refuse to teach him?
It's not like she gets the chance anyway.
At least she can focus on the other kids.
What's the point of schools allowing this?

I know people that have gone private to avoid disruptive behaviour but what are other people's parents and teachers meant to do? Can't believe this goes on.

Shouldn't there be a special teacher for this kid?

Also, the kids that are not toilet trained why aren't they sent back home until the parent teaches them?

We need more private schools if this is what is happening in state schools now.

She was actually crying last week. Unfortunately they have to accept him because it's all about being 'inclusive'. I think it's completely outrageous, I can understand if he were disruptive but he's physically hurting other children and teachers. He probably needs to go to a special school, but where? Who will be able to manage him anyway? I was also thinking what will happen when he is bigger and much stronger