Tight friend is very sneaky!

[toomuch37]

I have a friend who’s very tight. It’s all the classics; disappears for her round, “forgets” her wallet and never pays you back, never chips in for group things but happily participates, etc. etc. She has no problem spending money on herself, so it’s not a money problem or a lifestyle, she’s only mean with others.

Having thought about it a lot, I want to continue the friendship - we have great conversations and lots in common, she’s very empathetic and supportive, and I like having her around. I’ve accepted the tightness. However, I obviously don’t want things to continue like this.

The problem is that she’s a seasoned pro at not paying her part. First, she keeps the amounts small enough (£5-10) that I feel silly asking for it back when we meet up again a few weeks down the line.

Second, in our friend group we always take turns or do rounds - it’s a really nice dynamic and it always evens out with the others. However, it also means this friend can get in a lot more freebies. No one’s going to say “this is my round, except you Lucy, you have to get your own.” I don’t really want to change the wider group dynamic because of one person, though.

Finally, she’s very sneaky. If we’re at a pub, she’ll volunteer to grab a table while we get drinks. If there’s a card machine going round after dinner, she grabs it first (and there is inevitably a balance left by the time it gets to the last person). If she knows she owes me a drink, she’ll run to the bar and get one for herself before I can say “hey, I think I got these last time, do you mind getting this round?” Obviously doesn’t work every time, but more than you’d think.

So, how do I get ahead of the sneakiness? I’m not a pushover and there have been occasions where I’ve straight up said, “actually, I think Lucy owes xxx” - but she seems expert at avoiding these situations in the first place…

This is an interesting quirk of being shy and insecure. I have some friends that are like this, and they too will let others pay for them. I think they'd be shocked if the behaviour was called brazen.
It seems to be a sort of childlike selfishness. They see themselves as less than, and with that, seem to expect to be looked after with things like this. A good friend of mine would fleece me regularly just because they saw me as a proper adult with a good job and kids, and they were young (the same age as me!) and childless and shy and insecure. Them expecting me to pay irritated the shit out of me.

I was thinking about this but does anyone actually do that? As in, eg a group of 6 people out and they are all queueing up individually one behind the other buying one drink for themselves?
it’s often suggested in threads like this and it’s definitely a guaranteed way of making sure you never under or over pay but also it just seems really impractical and faffy, plus who’s saving the table if everyone is up getting a drink?!

Ever heard the phrase neither a borrower nor a lender be? With her, this needs to be your modus operandi. You need to buy your corn drinks every time. Never but the first round. If she vanished, just get your own.

OP, you write:
"[...] we have great conversations and lots in common, she’s very empathetic and supportive, and I like having her around."

Those would have to be the absolutely greatest conversations in the world for me to stand someone being so ungenerous and sneaky!

we used to have similar at work group lunches. We were all honest about how we wanted to do the sharing because we would all be at various places in our life budget thing.

Have only read the OP’s posts, but on a similar thread, a pp had the same issue and they were just direct with the CF. So at the start of the evening, they’d say ‘it’s your round CF’ in front of everyone. Made it very difficult to be sneaky.

I would just be upfront about it, not causing a scene or being mean, but just asking directly, in front of everyone else if necessary “Um excuse me but I think you owe £x” or “i definitely got the last two rounds, this is your shout!” She’s being sneaky cos she knows she’s in the wrong and knows it’s a shitty thing to do. She probably also knows you and your friends won’t call her out on it. However, being outed, and being embarrassed (rightly so) might cause her to rethink before she dips out on the bill or “forgets” to pay you back in future. I know I’d certainly be way too mortified to continue my sneaky, stingy antics!

I think in a light hearted way you have to start raising it. ‘Your turn’. I had a friend like that and for that and other reasons we eventually stopped being friends. For example, I booked the hotel for a holiday and she announced after she couldn’t pay at that time, we went for a drink and I had a soft drink and she had a cocktail but was miffed when I just paid mine, and so it went on. Personally I find a free loading attitude hard to take.

I like what @eish had to say about having a private word to suggest she opts out of rounds and buys her own food and drink. No one will mind her doing that.

It might be that she really can’t afford to buy rounds but really wants to spend time with you all. She might not even be able to afford to buy her own drinks all evening. I’ve known people like that, who will make one drink last two hours.

That’s not to say other people should pay for her night out but I think if that is her situation it would be much kinder to have a quiet word than openly shaming her into coughing up. That could result in her staying away when all she needs to do is pay for herself separately

A kitty upfront, ALWAYS.

i'm shy/insecure/have a medical condition. What do the CFs do in Tesco when they get to the till?

I think in the group setting, if splitwise isn't an option, I'd go down the kitty route.
"Last time we went out I'm not sure the money worked out evenly - can we each stick £x in a kitty and use that till it runs out tonight? Thanks!".
No blame on her, fair on everyone. If she doesn't want to join the kitty as "she hasn't got cash" or something then just say those in the kitty will use that and she can sort herself out outside of the kitty... still not blamey and fair.

Yes I think is this.
In her mind you are the big grown up and she's just a poor helpless little lassie struggling to make her way in the world. Not sure what you do about it though unless everyone is on the same page.
I was once on a girls holiday with a similar character and we all got so fed up when she went to the loo - as usual- when the first round was being ordered- after of course asking for an expensive cocktail- that we arranged a kitty for when she came back. She was shocked and protested how silly it was to do this for such small amounts, but didn't seem to appreciate she was the one causing the problem by not taking her turn to pay.

Hi,

I know this sounds mad, but she might not be completely aware she's doing it.

She obviously has some problematic mental blocks around money/favours/friendship - she might think people aren't noticing, and that it doesn't really matter...

This is going to bring your friendship to an end if it doesn't change though isn't it (sounds like it's getting close to it already)

So if you would prefer to stay friends, you are going to HAVE to say something

Be as kind as you can, but also completely clear and direct. Use examples of specific situations so she can't pretend it was a one off, or your mistake.

It sounds like she has developed fears around money - perhaps gently suggesting she look in to why she's behaving like this would help her. does it stem from her childhood maybe? Because she's going to lose people she cares about if she continues this way...

I think you need a kitty for rounds that everyone contributes equally to. My husband has a friend like that, who used to order pints of water and then add concentrated fruit juice to it in the pub!!! One of the Squash'd range, easy to carry in a pocket and conceal in his hand when topping up. My husband was embarrassed by him and eventually just told him straight not to be so tight lol

We have a family friend like this, you have to call it out every single time.
It’s your round mate.
No I’ll get the table this time, you get the drinks in.
Bill arrives, ok that’s £25 each
You have to be blunt with these people, they absolutely know what they’re doing and I’ve found if you call it out enough they start getting a round in without being asked to avoid being told it’s their turn.

some of these things aren't just being tight. If she's paying her share first of a bill and not putting enough in, so someone else has to cover her, she is essentially stealing.

I think that if you spend too much time always 'on' making sure to find a way to catch her out and make sure she pays her way, you are going to lose the enjoyment of the friendship. Although you've said you don't want to gossip behind her back, I think you have to discuss it with some of the others so a few of you can point it out and you don't feel like you're always policing her.

Alternatively, the best way is to address it directly and say to her 'Lucy, a few of us have noticed that you have been accepting rounds and not paying, or not paying people back, etc. and it's getting a bit awkward. Do you just want to pay for yourself from now on?' As @eish said, You can dress it up with a 'is everything okay for you? Are you having money problems?' If you want to be nice, but if she's aware that everyone has clocked her hopefully she will stop.

Also not sure what you mean by 'doesn't chip in for group things but happily participates.' If it's something that you need to pay up front for, just don't include her. i.e. 5 people give you money for a gig ticket, get 5 tickets and not one for her. If it's, for example, a baby shower/bday/etc gift, just put the people's names who contributed on the card and not hers, and don't get her anything when it's her birthday/wedding/whatever.

I also have a friend like this.

You have to be direct! Message her - hello Jane, you owe me for x and y - its £10 , here are my bank details.

Agree to a kitty for pub visits.

Tell them to bring drinks to a party / get together.

Its difficult because we are made to feel tight by chasing up small amounts of money, but that's down to societal conditioning.

I have a niece like this. She is in her late 20's and earns about the same as I do. She still expects everyone else to pay for her in group settings or meals. Will never buy a round, or contribute to petrol or taxis etc. Even getting a takeaway she will let us buy it.
We have had enough though and now just say to her " you owe us this amount, or it's your turn to go to the bar" I cannot stand anyone being mean, it would turn me off a friendship no matter how good everything else is.

Hmm. I don't think yu meed to make a scene. But stop letting her not pay her way.

My own Brother what he does is he lets friends buy the first couple of rounds of drinks, then when it’s his turn, he doesn’t buy himself a drink, we’ve told him it’s not on todo that. When your friend says I’ll find a table, go with her, then when you’ve sat down, ask her to get the drinks in. We all have people/family we know who shirk out of getting a round in, I had an Uncle who always went to the toilet, knowing someone else would buy the first round. We all knew and commented on it, he never changed.

I have a friend of twenty odd years. Millionaire. Six rentals that we know of, possibly more. We meet for breakfast these days with another friend. The first breakfast her card didn't work, the second she'd forgotten it. The third she asked to split our friends £7 birthday soup! She wanted to treat her blah blah. I went to lunch with my other friend and said you must notice and she said yes so we're waiting for next month and see what stunt she pulls. I can't wait to laugh my socks off.
Take the same attitude OP when your friend does this. She'll wonder what you are laughing at. The kitty's a good idea. I'd use the codeword calamari.

And me, unless it was a very good friend - but then my good friends would never behave like this in the first place

Agree with others about a kitty or just "It's your round", but it won't be easy with someone so practised who's been allowed to get away with it for ages. In the end you may be left with the choice of sucking it up or the nuclear option of "get your own drinks and we'll get ours", or maybe she'll be the one to decide that the friendship isn't worth the potential cost to her

I have a friend who can be a bit like this, but is still good fun to have around and contributes to the friendship group in other ways.

I don't have any qualms at all in calling him out on it. Loudly and publicly if needed. "John, it must be your round." It's more embarrassing to be the mouse who lets him get away with it. He's much better now he now he knows he won't. I'd also tell him what he owes and ask him to transfer the money e.g. for a taxi and remind in the group as needed. Again, you don't need to do it often.

I don't understand the card machine thing. Either you all pay for what you had or you divide the bill equally and tell the waiter what you'll each be paying.

At the risk of losing this supposed friend I would not hold back telling her that she was you money and she's seen as mean by all and sundry but that's me surely you can live without her in your life.