Women are banned from talking in public

[Washingupdone]

Women through new laws issued by Afghanistan’s Taliban rulers, are now banned on speaking in public as a woman's voice is considered "intimate" and should not be heard. I feel so sad and helpless for their situation. At least I am educated and in this situation would try to limit birth control without my husband being aware of my actions, if I could.
Does anyone know how they can be helped?

I have already spelt it out for you.

You cannot conclude with certainty that you know how the men feel about the oppression or the religious ideology.

So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that the men in Afghanistan wouldn't want to overthrow the Taliban even if they could?

You continue to rewrite my posts and it's not necessary.

No one here knows what the prevailing sentiment is wrt males in Afghanistan regarding the oppression of women.

I'm going to weigh in here in complete agreement with @EasternStandard . We have no idea what the men feel but their radio silence when they reach Europe speaks volumes.
The men who make it to Europe are mainly young & healthy, they have grown up knowing nothing else except the persecution of women in Afghanistan.
How are men educated in Afghanistan? What message does it send them about females when they can't leave the house without a male chaperone? Can't show a cm of skin? And now can't talk in public?
Look at how easily young men of all nationalities become radicalised? Beliefs are ingrained from a very young age.

No that's correct. No one but those men knows how they feel about the oppression of Afghan's women.

That wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making was that the men of Afghanistan cannot take on the Taliban with their bare hands. Irrespective of how they feel about the oppression of women; it would be impossible to defeat them.

^ exactly this.

We must always, always remain vigilant. As fast as women's rights are 'granted' they can be snatched away again.

But don't you understand the millions of Afghani men in sitiu here in Europe could make a huge difference in highlighting the horrific plight of Afgani women.
If the Afghan men shouted out it would add much more weight to all the current aid campaigns that are attempting to help Afghan women the West would absolutely support.

I would not hold my breath re the support of Afghan men for the plight of women there. I seem to remember widespread support for the Taliban in Conservative rural areas.

From the Talib perspective, supporters of women would be going against the word of God - or at least that of respected imans (the Taliban remember, are largely illiterate and cannot read the Koran themselves). I very much doubt the opinions of Western women would hold any weight.

One pp mentioned commercial pressure on Taliban supporting states such as China, Qatar and UAE, which is probably the best idea yet. As in Iran, grassroots demos are brave but very dangerous for the participants and particularly the leaders.

Can we stop talking about the men now? People have made their points. There are other parts to this situation that could be discussed rather than going round and round in circles about what the men think.

Does anyone follow any women from Afghanistan? I follow some ex-muslim feminists like Sarah Haider. I'd like to hear her views on this.

I don't think Sarah Haider's views will be any different to ours, I'm sure is in absolute despair & horrified . The world is watching on in horror yet the world accepts the men fleeing, the men staying schtum when they reach Europe & the women are literally left to rot.
I think discussing the men's ability to bring about change is very relevant to this discussion, change needs to come from the Afghani's themselves. We accept that the women are absolutely powerless so this change needs to come from the men.
There are millions of Afghan men in Europe, if they rise up the world will join in & it will weaken the Taliban's morale if they hear the voices of dissent from millions of Afghans in Europe. More questions need to be asked of these men when they enter Europe, it's not good enough.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2024/08/16/g-s1-16747/afghanistan-taliban-womens-rights-girls-education

Just to back up my argument, this article was published earlier this month. Men in Afghanistan are afraid to speak out but surely once they reach Europe they need to make their voices heard. The Afghan men can do so much.

Okay but you've made this point over and over and seem to not take in the fact that this hasn't and isn't going to happen. It's like you think if you repeat it enough times it will change the situation or you'll convince everyone that this is the right thing to focus on.

I hear and understand your argument and have some sympathy for it, but at this point it feels like a derailment of the thread to keep making essentially the same comment over and over again and I would really like to hear what other people think about the thread topic.

ETA: thank you for posting the article, which I will read!

Why won't the Afghan men in Europe start speaking out? Nothing is stopping them. It's not derailment. Afghanistan is made up of men & women. The women are persecuted against & have zero rights as humans, the men can flee & claim persecution from the Taliban
This is so wrong, yet it's widely accepted in the west no questions asked.

I have always been horrified at the plight of Afghani women but I'm not sure what else the west can do that would not lead to a war which is why I feel the men who have fled need to step up.

The article is really good & I totally understand why the men in Afghanistan who want rights for women are also completely powerless.

Some good points here. Why has there been tumbleweed from Afghani men living in Western countries? Quite a stark contrast to the Iranian diaspora.

I'm not sure what else the west can do that would not lead to a war which is why I feel the men who have fled need to step up.

Maybe war is what's needed. We talk about "just war" when it comes to ww2. The idea that war is a necessary evil. Maybe it is. I feel that way about Israel - that they have to defend themselves. I think maybe a war to destroy the Taliban is not so different.

It feels crazy to say that because I would always have seen myself as anti war. But I guess some things are worth fighting for. Although again, easy for me to say as a middle aged woman who isn't going to be fighting anyone or suffering the consequences.

If you look into the history of Western intervention in Afghanistan, you'll see why there's reluctance to go back in.

I think even a war is impossible to wipe the Taliban out due to the geographical make up of the country.. Cave networks, huge mountain regions, the Taliban can hide much easier plus in this day & age they can be in any part of the world giving commands online etc...

They shouldn't have left in the way they did. Literally handed everything over to the Taliban and abandoned all their allies and staff there, most of whom couldn't get out in time. It was absolutely horrendous what they did, very stupid and cruel.

They shouldn't have been there in the first place. I remember when they were drumming up support for that invasion and their reason was women's rights.

The Taliban went underground didn't they whilst the US and co were there

If they hadn't been there why wouldn't what we are seeing now have happened earlier?

I have been thinking, and I wonder why anyone would expect that the men in Afghanistan, or those who have fled, would naturally stand up for the women, when even in our own country, there is only a minority of men that would actually put themselves out there for women’s rights. Historically, men in general have been happy to go along with privilege awarded to them because of a dangly thing between their legs.

I think that the only way men will find the courage and necessity to speak out for women, is when their lives are also made intolerable.

Western involvement has been historically unhelpful and hard to manage. If was partly the American support for the ‘just’ war against the Soviets (alongside that of Saudi and Pakistan) that created the Taliban as they are today. Not a win. I would have thought the Israel issue highlights how there is no justice in war especially for the women and children who are such disproportionate victims of the violence and living conditions.

For many of the people I know protesting about the plight of Afghan women would seem utterly pointless. Who would they want to hear - Western women and men who generally seem not to give a shit or their own people at home who are getting two hours of power on a good day in the better connected places, where sanitation and food are not givens and where poverty is desperate?

There is no comparison to people leaving Iran. The gulf in wealth, education and living standards between the two places is enormous.

Peasfulperson - indeed we would indeed be expecting more then we generally do of all other men.

And that won't happen as long as the west continue to leave these men seek refuge in full knowledgeable of the inhumane way the abandoned girls & women are living in back in Afghanistan. It's socially accepted that the men can flee from persecution leaving the women behind. Why is society so tolerant of this? There is something seriously wrong & yes you are right only a minority of men accross the globe would put women first.
What would the suffregates make of this?