Stuck living abroad with shitty H or 1 bed flat in UK

[Whatnowhelp]

Just that. Horrible H, multiple affairs (him), controlling, silent treatment - the lot. OR move back to UK to our 1 bed flat - rented out now - owned outright. Catch - I would be with our 3 DC, ages 11,10 and 7. Advice please. I will be up shit creek financially so moving will be difficult for the first couple of year until I can get a mortgage.

Fair enough. And I can’t be bothered to pay any attention to you since you haven’t bothered to cite a single case and there is no way of knowing whether such exceptions (if they exist) would apply to the OP.

Personally, I take the view that the people shouldn’t be encouraged to do something that raises a significant risk of losing their children for good if the courts don’t ignore The Hague Convention but you do you.

Also, in light of what the OP has said since (that she does have her husband’s consent), it’s completely irrelevant anyway.

Once the tenants are out move. While in the UK obviously find schools, and a job. That's the start. You then can start looking for rentals once settled. Your mental health is important here. Or you could end up having a mental breakdown and lose everything. I writing from my own experience. If I didn't leave my ex h by the time I left I don't know where I could've been by now ( mental hospital ? Prison? Dead ? God knows) as I was really losing it.

I think this is your chance and you need to take it OP.
Being overcrowded will be alright as you know it won't be forever.
Get away and breathe - he's clearly in agreement with the permanent move and you'll have about two years to make a proper plan of what you want and need to do with friends by your side.

I wish you and your children peace.

I tend to agree. If you can permanently move to the UK with his consent, I think you should do so, 1 bed flat or not. It sounds like it will be short term - once you have a job using professional qualifications, you will find it easier to buy something bigger.

Alternatively, if your husband thinks there is an intention to move back as a family, can you arrange to buy a bigger property with him? It might cost you some money if it has to be sold when you file for divorce in a year or so but a joint purchase of a family home (and possibly the sale of the non-UK property) would be useful evidence of a joint intention to move permanently to the UK.

Edited to say: even if he insists on an area you don’t like, it might still be worth it to get back to the UK both so you can work and so your children end up under the jurisdiction of the UK courts.

To all the women calling you selfish for putting yourself first so in turn you can then look after your children better are insane, I wonder if they’d say the same thing if they were in your shoes.

the lack of empathy and emotional intelligence in the world is horrifying.

children are easy to adapt - fact

you will over time be able to improve their quality of living as you've stated you have qualifications which are specific to the UK

you hear stories all the time “I wish my my would have just left and taken us instead of us living on egg shells and in misery” women who stay for the “family life” are misled by the women on this thread calling you selfish.

get out while you can, play whatever game you need to, to get away. play nice, be smart & when you’re in the UK breathe and make plans.

I also agree that this is your chance and you should take it.
Do you have family/friends who would be willing to stand as guarantor for renting a bigger flat?
I'd come, start off in the small flat and look to getting something bigger once you are here.
You may find that one you are in the country and can meet a landlord/letting agent face to face, once they understand that you are fleeing abuse and especially if you have a guarantor, they may be willing to rent to you

But yes, get proper legal advice about the children first.

This. Absolutely this.

I'd play the long game. Organise the move as he thinks with him joining you in 2 years.
Get him to sign any documents like school applications so it looks natural and confirms he agrees.

Let him visit you a few times whilst you're in the UK, whilst the children are getting settled into school etc.
Set up a joint account in the UK so that also proves he agrees to you living there.
When you are absolutely sure, and after getting legal advice, then leave him.

The 1 bed will be fine. You just have to be organised with storage and do outside activities a lot.

@ThatFunFinch I'm one of the posters who I believe you're stating has a lack of empathy and emotional intelligence
My statement was related to the 'happy mum, happy kids' statement which I still feel is inaccurate. So nothing matters as long as the mum is happy? The kids don't matter as individuals?

Totally agree with @LeavesOnTrees . Apart from anything else, if he thinks it’s a family move, the ‘one bed flat’ issue falls away. I can’t imagine a man like the one the OP describes being happy living in a 1 bed flat himself so he’s likely to agree to the purchase of a decent family home.

I've tried to explore the idea of selling up and buying a bigger place now, and moving after. I just can't describe to you how much on a precipice I feel our lives are right now and it's stress that triggers his violence. I can't stand it when it happens it makes me want to die immediately, just cease being. I can't imagine my children's lives without me. They need me and that's why his behaviour scares me. Not as much what he might do but also what I might do. I don't feel violent towards him, i feel I may die. I think I might have a heart attack. The stress of selling would send him spiralling frequently and I'm worried my body won't handle it. I just want safety. I don't care how small the flat is. I just don't know if this is an ethical decision to put on my children though. 90% of the time our life here is good. I am waiting for something always that will kill me. I'm scared.

But apologies @Whatnowhelp for the derail. You are clearly not making off the cuff decisions re your dc, and wish you the best going forward.

On the outside I'm a normal successful woman. People, woman, comment saying I am so 'together' and 'have it all figured out'. I could be anyone. I am good at my job, very good. I am so scared of my H. I don't know him. I am sure if I was alone I could successfully sell the flat and buy a bigger one - the building has security cameras at the entrance which was trivial point for me when we bought it but now they feel like an amazing security blanket.

@Whatnowhelp

Do you think that your husband could potentially cause you and your children physical harm? Has he already done so?

3-4 months is a long time to wait for the tenants to move out.

Do you have friends and family you could stay with in the UK? You could argue that it would be good to move for the start of the school year ie in next few weeks??

Having read this, you could maybe move to the flat and tell him it’s much easier to find a nice house when living nearby? Hopefully if he does lose it as a result of the stress of a move, you and the children won’t be there to take it out on since you will already be in the flat.

Edited to say: And I agree with the PP, can you use being in place for September as a reason for moving now? Apart for anything else, moving in a rush might prevent him having time to change his mind. Can you afford an AirBnB in the area you want to live (relevant for school placements)?

Your kids will cope fine in a small flat. They'll be out at school much of the time anyway and perhaps by the new year you will be employed and have more choices.

Have you considered framing it in the context of education? If your oldest is heading for secondary school in the UK next year, it's a good idea anyway to have him/her back her and settled in.

Then you have the option to suggest you sell the flat to buy/rent in a suitable catchment area for the new schools?

Even if you might have usually considered private schooling the tax situation is uncertain so if framed in a way that it gives options to school privately or via state, then you return to the UK, get the kids into school and make your moves. Stealthily.

I honestly don't know what he's capable of. He's never harmed or come close to harming the DC. I read stories about men killing their children and wife though, and I wouldn't put it past him to do so in order to get revenge on me. I don't want to talk about his behaviour in this way towards me.

If you even think this is a possibility, you must get away and take your DC. He sounds horrendous.

I have discussed it always in this framework - eldest DC goes to secondary soon. Move in, find a nice school and buy a family home near the school. Flat move is in his mind a 3-6 month deal. Stealthy as possible.

While I agree, it also emphasises how careful she needs to be. A facade of cheerfully moving the whole family to the UK and happily anticipating her husband joining them in due course with all the surface planning aimed at the whole family living happily together is likely to be much safer than the OP showing her hand before she is ready.

Agree with PPs, now is the perfect time to return to the UK for the new school year, with his signature on the school applications, the storage unit rental agreement, and a two line letter saying “I confirm yourname has my permission to fly back to the UK with childrennames”. Text him casually about the flights or the schools or whatever and screenshot his texts in response.

Absolutely this.

Any way you can record him saying this? If he’s said it to friends will they back you up? The posters who say UK courts would return the children to the country they were settled in is worrying but would he take it that far?
Can you email Womens Aid in UK for advice? [email protected]

All of that is actually true, surely. You just don’t need to mention you have no plans of letting him move in. For your own safety you can do everything you would do if you were happily married and planning a joint move back to the UK. After some time (length of time as advised by a solicitor), when the children are firmly settled in schools and there is shedloads of evidence the family move to the UK is permanent, then it’s time to file for divorce.

If he’s physically violent towards you, please be careful. Once you are back in the UK and away from him, you have breathing space. I have no doubt your mental health will improve when you are away from him too.