Stuck living abroad with shitty H or 1 bed flat in UK

[Whatnowhelp]

Just that. Horrible H, multiple affairs (him), controlling, silent treatment - the lot. OR move back to UK to our 1 bed flat - rented out now - owned outright. Catch - I would be with our 3 DC, ages 11,10 and 7. Advice please. I will be up shit creek financially so moving will be difficult for the first couple of year until I can get a mortgage.

Where does income from the flat go to?

I hope you get legal advice soon.

My mum left her abusive husband when I was 9, and my siblings 6 and 3. We went from living in a big family house to sharing a single room for all 4 of us.

The change was hard for a few weeks but once we got used to it, I loved it. I have very fond memories of living in that room all together, whilst the memories of the big house aren't great as my parents were always shouting.

We lived like that for 3 years. When I got a room to myself at 12, I really missed sharing!

Leave. Your kids will be much happier if you're happy.

You'd think wouldn't you. I've tried this - LLs don't want to rent to a single unemployed mother of 3, not matter how far in advance I've offered to pay. I've tried paying even 12 months up front and still they prefer to go with the people with jobs and no DC. I understand their concern. The circumstances indicate our lives are chaotic.

What would you survive on? Is the plan to get a job if you come back?

Thanks for this. I just need to try. I can't carry on. I'm sure when I'm there, in a job, with my friend around me, I will be able to sell and get a bigger place. I am intimidated by him. I want my friends (and their very large DHs) on hand to call when he starts to intimidate me. I don't have anyone here so I pussyfoot around trying to manage him, and not live my own life.
We don't shout anymore. After I found out about his affairs a year ago I decided I'm his wife only on paper. I no longer imagine a future with him, which makes ignoring his crap partner behaviour possible - so we no longer row day to day. I can't ignore his abusive behaviour. I FEEL it in my body, not think it. I deal with this by trying endlessly to not provoke him. For the first time over this summer he has abused me for something not related to me, or our home life. Bit like a football team losing and man beating wife. Something like that but not football. I had zero control over it. I was so shocked I actually fell over. He didn't push me but my body shut down I was so shocked at his insane outburst that was 100% unexpected.

Yes, I have good job prospects in my home city.

Please come back to the uk. You'll feel safer and a burden lifted off your shoulders. It maybe difficult for a few weeks until you get a routine but not as difficult as what you are in now.

I'm so sorry women like us have to go through this. It's unfair but we're here for each other. Much love x

OP you might want to consider contacting the charity, GlobalArk, who can provide advice and support for people abroad in the situation you are in (relationship breaking up abroad with kids involved). It sounds like you can return home quite easily but your DH could throw a spanner in the works once he realises you intend to leave him for good. They can guide you as to the necessary steps to take to avoid him succeeding in getting the kids back to live with him.

As for the 1 bed flat, I take it that your DH is agreeable to giving your tenants notice so you can move back in, or is he expecting to rent somewhere for you there?

www.globalarrk.org/for-parents/our-support-network/

Just a side thought but if your flat is currently rented out, when does the lease end? You can't just assume it's available to move into. Make sure you have plan b either with friends or family. Or can you time leaving to lease end? Equally schools especially for the 10 year old, are there options near to the flat/family? Kids will settle more quickly once they have friends.
Absolutely you need to leave but check the practicalities first before committing to timing.

Part of the urgency now is that the tenants are leaving of their own accord in the next 3-4 months- they are leaving because they are buying nearby. This is one of the reasons I feel it's an opportunity right now. The rent is paid into a joint account.

If he's currently happy for it to be a permanent move, maybe you could get him to write a letter (write one for him to sign) confirming it, saying that it's just in case you need it for UK admin stuff while he's in your now-home country, and so you don't have to disturb him while he's busy with his work project? I'm not a lawyer, but after 2 or 3 years and if everyone knew this was a permanent move at the beginning, surely a court would consider the UK their home country and it would be him needing your permission to move them back abroad.

I wouldn't worry overly about the flat size. It's not ideal, but it's also not for ever. And once you're in work in the UK, you might find people are more willing to rent a bigger flat to you. If he's willing for the move to be permanent, is it worth considering renting somewhere bigger, using his income as well as yours for proof of income purposes for landlords, until you get yourself settled? It wouldn't seem weird to me, in his shoes, and might make the transition to the UK easier to manage for your kids.

(They will probably find this hard regardless - it's a new thing for them - it doesn't mean you're wrong to do it, or that it's because your flat is too small and cramped. These might be thoughts that go through your mind when you're back - but even in the most ideal of circumstances, international moves can be tough, including on kids. Escaping an abusive relationship is an excellent and more than sufficient reason for moving anyway, despite the upheaval.)

Who manages the flat? If it’s you that’s easier because you can keep it empty.

You need to get away from him but it doesn’t feel like you’ve thought further than arriving back in your home city.

Does your husband know you plan to live in the flat and there will be no rent coming in? Otherwise that’s a pretty big giveaway about your plans to remain.

You mentioned selling the flat. Would your husband consent to this? Again, he could not agree a sale and throw a big spanner in the works.

I’m assuming you have money if you were able to offer a year’s rent up front. Where is it if you’ve only just found a personal bank account? This money could be used to cover living expenses while you settle and find a job. I wouldn’t count on a penny of support or access to any bank accounts or credit cards after you walk out the door.

Im all for you leaving with the children, but never underestimate how low an abusive man will stoop to make your life and the kids lives difficult.

Based on your updates, OP, I think you're in a good position. He's agreed to you and the children moving to the UK permanently, at the moment he intends to visit regularly and move back to the UK to join you after 2-3 years, so that gives you the green light to move there and get the children settled in school, get a job, and get space from him, before facing the stress of telling him you want to separate/divorce. If you've visited schools together that's clear evidence that he knows and agrees with the plan. Get him to give you something in writing, if you can do it without arousing suspicion, and get legal advice of course, but I think it should be fine.

Move into the flat to begin with, but once you've got a job you could probably get a mortgage - so you could sell the flat and use the equity to buy a bigger place with a mortgage. I wouldn't worry about that now if I were you, though. Just get to the UK - with his agreement - and get the kids in school, get yourself a job. The housing situation will be fine in the short term.

@Whatnowhelp

Your case isn't the kind of case which can be done competently via law students, though. You need the help of solicitors with the right kind of expertise and experience.

https://freemanssolicitors.net/for-you/family-children-and-divorce/

Your updates give a clearer picture op.

you have a window of opportunity right now. He’s agreed to a move to the UK for 2-3 years and you have accommodation - even if not perfect - available.

legal issues will only come into it if you start divorce proceedings immediately you’re in the UK.

you should seize thr moment now. Get you and the kids over to the UK, wit( his agreement. Keep playing nice.

once you’re there - and yes the accommodation is far from ideal - and have a support network around you, you can start to make plans. Get work. Look at better accomm options. Sort the finance. Get legal advice etc.

things will change a lot in the 2-3 year window you have, and it can all be resolved. But you should take the opportunity you have now.

Please, please go home. Happy mum = happy kids. Kids are resilient and will cope with change.

You need formal, legal, written permission from him to take the children to a country that is not their 'habitual place of residence'. See a lawyer ASAP and make arrangements to get this formalised. If you just go on a verbal agreement and go through all the stress of moving them home he could then invoke The Hague Convention and you'd be forced to return them. It's to stop international child abduction but if often works against mothers in your situation.

See a lawyer. Prepare really, really well. The better prepared and organised you are at this end, the simpler things will be on the flipside.

Good luck darling ❤️ xx

Yes, he knows that's what I'm planning. It's framed as a temporary move into the flat, until we sell and I have a job and can get a mortgage. He knows it's a permanent move for me and the children - he is planning on joining us in 2 years or so. He knows there will be no rental income. We don't rely on it anyway, it goes into a savings account. We don't have a manager for it as the same tenants have lived in it for about 10 years so we just work directly with them to keep everything going smoothly. I do the 'management' of it.
The money we can pay upfront for a year's rent is in our joint savings account. We are front north england, so a year's rent on a 2/3 bed place would be around 14k. I have tried renting already, but LLs understandably go for the 'simple' tenants - those with a proven income in the local area, generally without children. And a wad of cash is not enough to change this.
My thinking is that as soon as we leave physically this place, I should expect him to be as awful as possible and prepare for that. I am trying to think of what else I need to consider, I know I may come across as if I've only thought of the first step- I simply can't fathom the next steps, but I think we my friends and family around I can face it.
I know now I need to get it in writing that he consents to their leaving. I'll get advice on how this could happen from a student lawyer (free at local uni) and then possibly a lawyer if need be. If anyone has any information on what next steps further than getting consent and arriving in the country that would be good. Aside from managing the emotional and practical side of moving three children to a different country - that's a whole other thread!

Taken on board - thank you.

Honestly op you need to be careful about alerting him to anything. Much of the advice on here re legalities assumes that you’re seeking to leave and take the kids without his consent - valid in that case, but not the issue here.

Having been there, I would strongly advise making the most of the window of opportunity you do have. If you ask him for something legal in writing it may alert him into changing the agreement - then you really do have a (legal) battle on your hands.

Maybe a better way is to ask him for a written email providing consent, and frame it as ‘just in case of any questions at thr airport’. then you have something written, which you can use later if needed. But honestly, as you have said, once you are back in thr uk, support system in place, job secured etc, you are in a much stronger place to tackle the legalities.

This

Have been in a similar situation, but not abroad
We're your children born in the country you now reside in? You do need to speak to the British embassy and get legal advice. It's all well and good, people just saying leave. An old neighbour of mine Did this, and her husband got custody of the children and yes she was accused of kidnapping. My ex H was co-ersive controll although I didn't realise at the time. Always prepared for the DKs to go.... until we got to court for the divorce. He also had nothing to do with them,apart from basic care while I was working. He attempted to have them removed and put into care. I ended up in a 2 bedroom place,3 DKs and I, a much bigger age gap than yours,2 boys older girl. Those saying you can't live in a 2 bedroom flat, have never been in this situation. However, I wouldn't trust the husband to say, yes you and kids can go and have the flat. It's got to be legalised. I stayed for the sake of the kids,he almost killed me!

I was in a similar situation, but in much further away country. I knew that if I stayed, my children would grow up and become proper Kiwis/Aussies/S Africans (examples) with bfs/gfs/families and would not want to leave - and I would be faced with choice of staying there away from my close family & friends here, or coming back and my children staying there and me being away from them.
I brought them back when they were similar ages to yours and we went from living in a beautiful, big house to a small, dark, rented two-up-two-down.
It was hard, but we were resilient, my career evolved in a way it wouldn't have there. I bought a house and then a bigger one and now my children are happy, well-adjusted and have very close relationships with their cousins and aunts and uncles.
I dread to think how things would have played out if I'd stayed.
They both went back recently for a holiday and said they are so glad they left when they did.
My situation was different; we weren't married and he already had someone else - but in many ways it's very similar.
He did punish me for leaving but I'm so glad I did.
Please don't stay there. Good luck 🌺

Cant you move out in that country then your children are still stable attend the same school see dad etc

Use the rental income from the flat to fund this

Where I live in London, it's not unusual to have three people in a one bed flat (or even more), so common it's not even considered overcrowding for housing lists.
I know a family of 5 in a 2 bed, family of four in a 1 bed, family of 3 (two adults one child) in a 1 bed, and so on.

Not that it isn't difficult, just to let you know it is possible and not considered wrong, just that's the housing situation in the UK now. It's common for children not to have anywhere to do homework, for example, so schools try to help with that.

It sounds like you'd be able to earn enough to rent or eventually buy somewhere bigger when your children start to get big enough for it to become a problem for them, so I don't think you should worry too much. Have faith in how much happier you'll be once you've left.