Stuck living abroad with shitty H or 1 bed flat in UK

[Whatnowhelp]

Just that. Horrible H, multiple affairs (him), controlling, silent treatment - the lot. OR move back to UK to our 1 bed flat - rented out now - owned outright. Catch - I would be with our 3 DC, ages 11,10 and 7. Advice please. I will be up shit creek financially so moving will be difficult for the first couple of year until I can get a mortgage.

This. If he agrees they can go for a holiday, that doesn’t alter their habitual residence. If the OP then stretches the holiday, that still doesn’t alter the country of their habitual residence.

She needs a signed document confirming his consent take the children permanently to the UK.

Going ‘on a holiday’ and then refusing to return firstly will lead to the children being returned by the British courts and secondly will result in a child abduction charge - consent by fraud is not consent.

You desperately, desperately need to seek guidance from a solicitor. Some of the things you're proposing are seriously misguided.

This and also I hate the phrase I've read many time 'happy mum, happy kids' It's so selfish, and basically means 'as long as I'm happy my kids should be too' and doesn't see the children as entities separate from their mother.

If he will allow you to leave then leave asap otherwise you might be stuck there regardless.

How do you plan to live in the UK financially?

I already said but you need legal advice. Don't fuck with The Hague Convention. Posters saying "sort it when you've left him" have no idea. They never mention this stuff on A Place in the Sun.

So much this. If this goes wrong the OP could end up with a couple of weeks a year with her children. She needs legal advice before doing anything far less taking the children and just leaving the way has been suggested.

It's difficult to advise without more information but I can imagine you don't want to share too much.

Firstly though I really think you need to get advice from a specialist domestic abuse organisation - there must be one in your country? Or you could contact the UK national domestic abuse helpline.

It's not very clear from your posts exactly what your husband has agreed to in terms of you moving to the UK with the children. Has he agreed to a temporary move, or a move until further notice, and is that on the understanding that you return to the country you're in now at some point? You say you need to hide the fact that you want to separate, so does that mean he thinks you will take the kids to the UK while he stays where he and you are now, but you remain in a relationship??

I think that you are in a tricky situation regarding the legalities of it, and if you do take your kids to the UK with the intention of staying, you should get legal advice first, and if possible get your husband's agreement in writing.

There are some good UK-based organisations with informative websites and helplines too - they are Rights of Women and Child Law Advice. I'll dig out the links. You should probably try and find advice based on your country of residence too.

Lastly, you say that your 1-bed flat is currently rented out. I'm sure you're aware that you'll need to legally evict the tenants before you can move in. Have you evicted tenants before? Do you know how the process works legally and how long it takes?

Do you have any family or friends in the UK that you and the children could stay with temporarily until you can sort a suitable place to live?

You will eventually become eligible for benefits and housing help in the UK once you are 'habitually resident' but you'll need practical and emotional support in the meantime.

There are a lot of aspects to consider but you can take it one step at a time. If you do just one thing please reach out to the national domestic abuse helpline or your local equivalent.

https://www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/family-law-information/children-and-the-law-holidays-and-relocation/

https://childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/travel-and-relocation/

Good helpful response👏

There are several legal cases where one parent has taken the child/children back to the UK without the other parent’s knowledge or consent and the English family court has made a best interests decision in favour of the child/children staying in the UK following an assessment. I can’t remember the names just now but it has happened. I also can’t really be bothered to argue about it.

I would stay put ignore H and work on getting ducks in a row can you put any cash away?

If he has made those comments to people about the DC moving to the UK need to document it, get statements from trusted people etc. because that can be seen as acquiescence.

As long as you don't deceive him, if he allows you to go to the UK, makes statements that he knows you are going etc, then he has acquiesced. The dangerous period is the first 12 months, after that any court case would likely have to be held in the UK rather than the country you are in now.

Quite, hence, my dilemma. I'm looking for advice on how to balance the needs of the children with mine. Namely is it acceptable to move my children into a tiny flat in order to be near friends and family and build myself up to the the point of being able to face a divorce.
I've always tried to put myself last behind my children but now I'm recognising that it's partly this that has created this situation we are living in. Continuing to do so I simply can't see how it is good for them. I can't support their emotional needs right now - I'm their only family here - the only person who demonstrates love to them, but I'm withdrawn into myself, internally looking for an escape. For years I've put up with unacceptable behaviour from my H but I think it's tipped from being overall good for them to overall bad.

Work, like I do here. I'll have a better job in the UK because I'll be able to benefit from my professional accreditation which I can't right now.

Trouble is he can say no to you leaving the country with them. And then you are stuck in whatever country you are.
You need legal advice.

You need to speak to a solicitor or local equivalent experienced in international family law urgently. I know someone from a message board years ago who took bad advice to simply return to her home country. They all had to return to the husband's country and he got custody as well.

@knitnerd90 that's horrible 😬

You need legal advice. This is not legal advice, but there is not a fixed period for a country to become a child’s habitual residence under the Hague Convention; it depends on the circumstances, and you also need to find out whether your current location is a signatory to the Convention. Don’t worry about the small flat, that will be fine - the issue is whether you can move them safely and legally.

Thanks, I've spoken to womans aid and described some incidents. They told me what he does is abuse, which was nice to hear - I've become so used to it, it just seems standard leading to thoughts of being terrible for thinking of removing the children from him.
He is agreeing to a permanent move for me and the children right now. He has a project a work lasting another 2-3 years which he wants to complete and then he believes he will also move back with us. We live in a western EU country so the flights are only 1-2 hours so he will commute in the interim every month or so to see the children and me. I will try to think of a way to get it in writing that he agrees to the move without alerting him to the possibility that I will separate from him. He has talked about it with friends and family and we have looked round schools together. There are plenty of witnesses to his agreement to this.

For further context, the only other option is that we either sell our flat and buy whilst he content that I'm playing a part of his wife in his head. But I don't know if I can handle the pressure of this process. a PP has described their breakdown and the aftermath, where she's no longer able to look after her DC. I want to avoid this above all else - not for myself but as I said these children only have me. My H is not a part of their lives day-to-day. They see him only a couple of hours a week and he's still distracted by his work. I feel guilty writing this as I know I'm distracted from them also, I just want to be able to be present for them. I am instead constantly on alert for further abuse. Emotional but also he is pretty violent too, though not directed at us. It's like living with a tiger. Even when the tiger is sleeping I still can't relax. I just want to not live with a tiger anymore so I can engage with life.

Thanks,

I've looked online and I think I can get free legal advice through students of law at the local university. I'll put this top of my list of priorities. If they can't help with this specific thing I will be able to ask them where else I can go. I'm just very reluctant to set up another bank account as I'm sure they will send some flyer or letter through the post. I could pay in cash but that might not be acceptable.

Bingo... I've just found a very old bank account that I set up over a decade ago and had forgotten about. I can use this to pay for legal advice.

There isn’t a set time that you have to be in the jurisdiction to be considered “habitually resident” (the legal test). It is about proving this is your main country of residence. To establish this the courts looks at where you are registered with a Dr, where the kids go to school etc. if your husband agrees to the initial move and their registration with Drs and local schools then you can be considered habitually resident within a relatively short time frame (a couple of months). Also the court system have a strong Status Quo approach. As the children live with you and you have always been their primary carer they won’t want to disturb that too hastily.

The other thing to bear in mind is that England and Wales are one jurisdiction. Scotland is a different one. I don’t know where you will be moving too but it is an important distinction.

@Whatnowhelp you have enough in your old account to cover legal costs?

You'd need a new card wouldn't you unless you call into branch with id?

Could you move to a cheaper area and rent, covering the rent a 2 / 3 bed with income from your flat