Stuck living abroad with shitty H or 1 bed flat in UK

[Whatnowhelp]

Just that. Horrible H, multiple affairs (him), controlling, silent treatment - the lot. OR move back to UK to our 1 bed flat - rented out now - owned outright. Catch - I would be with our 3 DC, ages 11,10 and 7. Advice please. I will be up shit creek financially so moving will be difficult for the first couple of year until I can get a mortgage.

The British courts will order the children returned to their father and if necessary the police / social services will remove them from the OP and put them on a plane. Depending on the current country, that country’s courts could then take the parental kidnapping (which legally is what this is) into account in denying the OP access to the children.

This is a seriously bad idea.

He is at the moment saying the he will let the children leave the country. I will need to see how long they are living in the UK before they will be considered settled there. I don't know how I could be accused of abduction when he agrees for them to go and shows no interest in caring for them here.

Open your own bank account and don't tell him.

Do you work? Can you get a job/second job and have it paid into your sole bank account without him knowing? If he's out all day and you worked part-time or do an hour cleaning somewhere before you start your regular job, he wouldn't know.

Anything you can sell to raise the funds for legal advice? Something he won't notice missing or you could plausibly say you lost whilst out.

Do you get loyalty points for supermarket where you are? Can you pay for the shopping one week using these and keep the cash you'd have otherwise used for the shopping, for legal advice?

You can’t if he agrees. I was responding to your post in which you said he wouldn’t agree.

Not necessarily - their views would be taken into account during an assessment.

But if he agrees for them to go - eg, he has told his friends and family he knows that they will soon be leaving and is supportive of that - he can't change his mind in 6-12 months?! I would not pull the plug before them as I'd need to be settled in a job and schools first.

Oh, sorry I don't think I said that. To be clear, he agrees they can leave now. I am concerned that if I separate from him here, he will punish me by taking away that permission.

I'd aim to go before he changes his mind.

Look into what notice you need to give your tenants to leave and whether you can do this, the law has changed/is changing surrounding this.

There's property forums and legal forums on MN where you might be able to get some questions answered. Also a divorce/separation forum and relationships forum where posters will help you work out how to leave.

That's one of the reasons why you need legal advice so desperately.

I'll look into a second job - I could frame it as a voluntary role

Going against the grain here but you & 3 kids cant live in a 1 bed flat. I wouldn't do it even for a weeks holiday. Say you cant sell it in a year, what happens then ?
I'm all for you leaving him & even coming back to the UK but 2 of your children will be starting secondary school & will need space to do homework, let alone wanting friends over.

No, really bad idea imo.

So are you confident that he will allow the children to stay in the UK 1) if you only instigate separation proceedings in the UK not where you live now OR 2) if you don't instigate separation proceedings at all?

I don't think it is fair or okay to have the second oldest with you, different sex, when they will be going through puberty. I really think you will need to get legal advice too as the flat is a marital asset so he could push for it to be sold and what would you do then

If the father doesn’t consent to the move (which the OP has now said I misunderstood and he will), the British courts don’t have jurisdiction. There wouldn’t be an assessment - under The Hague convention, the children will be returned and the courts in the original country will apply their laws, whatever they may be.

If the father agrees to a permanent return to the UK, my understanding is that the British courts then do have jurisdiction and assessments etc. will then follow.

I think he will lose interest in punishing me over time - which will be his primary motivation. Once he finds another woman (he will, probably quickly, he's charming and good looking and in a good job for meeting many admiring younger woman) he will not care enough to continue. After so long in the UK, they will be considered settled there.

Have you offered the money upfront for 6 months/a year rent? LLs can't ask for it but you can offer it and they can accept. Look at all areas of UK, anywhere is better than with him.

It could be a numbers problem than a financial one though. Your own flat you can do whatever you like but a LL is a business and will have rules to follow about overcrowding. Ensure you're applying for enough rooms to house your family or you won't be accepted. DC can share opposite sex under 10 years old or same sex if older. You could share with same sex DC or opposite sex if under 10. LL probably won't let you use living room as bedroom in these calculations.

Any UK friends have something they'd rent to you? Or know of someone who is LL they could recommend you to?

Youngest is opposite sex. Oldest two same sex. I'd share with the youngest. They are 7, I'd hope to move before they are 9/10. I've looked on the shelter website and by their caluclation it's overcrowded by 0.5 people.

Haven't RTFT, but as someone in a similar situation, please take legal advice. If you take your kids out of the country without their father's permission it could be considered abduction and your situation would be far worse than it is now. I know some posters have already said this, but there also a lot who are enthusiastically telling you to just do it, which sounds great in theory but could make things so much worse. Not to deny your kids would no doubt be better off and you absolutely must take care of your own needs too, but please tread carefully.

I do know someone who managed (it was a long process), with the help of a charity for women who have suffered abuse, to negotiate being allowed to return to the UK with her child. I don't know all the details but I remember she needed to demonstrate that she was unable to support herself in the country I live in. I'm sure there was a lot more to it but in her case, as in yours, the abuse was primarily emotional. So that might be another route, they also helped her out with free legal advice as she really had no access to money except through her husband.

OP are you suggesting you go first and then the kids follow once you’re settled?

This would not be a great idea.

It would be hard in a 1 bed flat with three children. If you left without the children would he be able to look after them.

My mum stayed when she should have taken us away and - I would have lived anywhere rather than stay in the situation we were in but she chose to stay. You might start off not in the same place you are now but you will grow and they will soar away from the toxicity of him

When you say that he agrees to you taking the kids back to the UK now but wouldn't if he knew you actually seperating from him, do you mean that you would go with the idea that you will stay together but just live in different countries? If so, do that as soon as you possibly can, not in a couple of years. You can then file for divorce in the UK once the kids are settled and he can't do anything about it. Keep renting the flat out and rent a bigger place for you and your kids or if you can move in with family for a little while whilst you get settled back in the UK and find a job.

You could rent your flat and then use that rental to rent a two bedroom place in a cheaper area

Then get that in writing. Preferably via a solicitor.