Milk allergy death- should the book be thrown at the staff involved?

[mids2019]

....or if you are minimum wage staff member working in a stressed environment without English as a first language there should be leniency. Doctors are paid for life and death decisions but are Costa staff?

Apols - Tried to edit first sentence of my post above ill-written in haste to remove it but can’t seem to! - pls ignore that line!

That’s not what he does is.

He eats out and manages it as well as he can

which is what most people with allergies do

you’re saying you have no choice but to eat out which of course you do. you just manage the risk. And don’t blame restaurants for inevitable errors.

And of you think that’s not worth the risk, don’t eat out

Gosh I was so surprised to read she had epipens prescribed. That was a bad call, the poor mum.

A swiss cheese case as a few people said upthread.

She should still never have been given that drink though, Costa have questions to answer.

Hannah died after suffering from a hypersensitive anaphylactic reaction triggered by an ingredient in her hot chocolate that caused an allergic response.

That's quite "woolly" isn't it?

I am saying I have no choice not to eat out over the course of my lifetime, at all, ever. I'm not referring to a single occasion.

Not eating out over a lifetime is not a realistic option for my family at least. By out I include at family and friends. That is what I meant.

Obviously on a day to day basis we do try to minimise risks as well as possible. We do choose not to eat at certain places. We triple check orders, only order food that's a bit harder to get wrong etc (steak rather than curry for example). We always err on the side of caution, though not to the extent other families here do in that we do occasionally eat out.

I think it's important for my children to learn how to manage allergies outside the home as well as all the general stuff about learning how to behave in various social situations. (We have autism in the family too so learning what to do in various social set-ups is important for them. Takes a bit of practice. )

I do blame a restaurant for getting orders wrong if it is clearly their mistake. Who else's fault is it? We are a bit obsessive about checking they've got it right so it's not caused issues so far. It is always a worry.

One thing I do want to flag, that I don't think is talked about enough , is that as soon as a child is showing signs of an allergic reaction that should stay where they are and sit or lie down (lie down preferably). Time and again in these stories the child has been moved to administer medication or obtain medication. My son's school gave me a draft allergy action plan and it had him walking to the first aid room if he had signs of a reaction.

Keep the person having an allergic reaction resting . Bring the help to them. Moving can worsen the reaction. It's frustrating how little knowledge there is about this.

One thing I am thinking is that there needs to be much better after care and education for parents, children and carers (and caterers). There is so much "best practice" known but the information doesn't seem to get out there.

My heart breaks for her mum.

Yes, indeed@WindsurfingDreams.
And I know it's been said before but if in any doubt at all give the epipen.
Many people are uncertain about when it's needed. If you're in a situation where you're uncertain, don't be, just give it asap.

I don't think the poor barista should take the blame for it. Although mistakes were made. If she'd had her Epi pen on her, or they'd used the one the dentist offered. It could have been different.

Bollocks @Cornflakericekrispie , fortunate enough to give up a great salary and package to consult and sweat where my next assignment was coming from as a single parent. Fortunate because I was able to keep a roof over our heads and make food from scratch/invite people round to my house for pasta and/or food made from basic ingredients.

I really wasn't interested in the long term future on a daily basis, my focus was just on keeping my severely anaphalactic DC alive and keeping a roof over our heads at the time.

I'm bowing out of this thread, if you haven't experienced that awful not knowing that your DC will survive their anaphalactic response on several occasions I am happy for you, but I did, repeatedly and I know how I felt and how I felt inclined to manage it.

It worked, DC is now an adult, getting there wasn't guaranteed.

Sorry if this has already been covered but this is a long thread? From what I can make out from the answers given in court by the Barista is that mum told her she had an allergy and asked her to clean the jug the barista said to mum that the hot chocolate powder is made with cow milk and mum replied ‘that’s fine’ so it was made with soya as requested but the actual hot choc ingredients had dairy in it.

I don’t know if I’m being harsh but if my child had such a severe dairy allergy the last place I would take them would be a coffee shop. There is just too much risk.

also mum was not carrying an epi pen…again why? This probably would have saved her life. I know it is an awful tragedy but I don’t think Costa can be held liable and I feel sorry for the barista.

I didn't say you were fortunate @GradGirl.
That was your inference.

I said not everyone could make the same choice you did, whether that was for financial or other reasons. I felt you were being too critical of others who make different choices.

I am really very glad your son is well and it worked out.

@FTMaz
The drink was made with dairy milk unfortunately. It wasn't a case of cross contamination or milk traces in the powder.

thats not what the article I read says…but then another one says it’s was her Mum’s hot chocolate not hers so was it the case then that hers was soya and Mum’s was not. It seems strange to me, why would you have a sip of someone else’s hot chocolate if you have the same drink? Again if my child was so allergic to milk I would try the drink myself first. I order almond milk at Starbucks and they have got it wrong before, it’s not a big deal because it’s just preference for me but when it comes to my child’s life I wouldn’t trust that human error could not occur.

No, it definitely wasn't made with soya milk. That's the issue. It was dairy. Mum intended it to be soya and did communicate that her DD had a milk allergy but there was some misunderstanding and the drink was made with cows milk.

Mistakes are made isn't good enough. Just as mum should have had epi-pen, staff should be capable of following simple instructions. They had one job.

It's also surprising that she didn't have the antihistamine with her and had to go to the pharmacist for that.
I know that that wouldn't have made a difference but it's odd that she didn't have them with her if that was their go-to.

No the baristas version of events is that she didn't hear her say soya, so she thought she requested 2 hot chocolates and to clean the jug because her daughter had a dairy allergy.
So the barista said something like 'you want me to clean the jug?.....but hot chocolate contains milk?" and the mother said that that was fine.

The barista then made 2 hot chocolate with cows milk, and cleaned the jug in between, which is bizarre because they were both being made with dairy milk, but the barista seemed to think that that was what the mother had requested.

This has confused me too
-is the barista saying she made both drinks using cows milk because she didn't hear 'soy milk', and that's why she said 'but hot chocolate is made with dairy milk'

• but that makes no sense because hot chocolate can be made with any milk, if she heard the allergy part which she obviously did it makes more sense that she d be talking about the powder itself (or that she ask' what milk did you want me to use' if she heard dairy allergy but not soy)
• is 'washing out a jug' sufficient protection with a dairy allergy? I wouldn't have thought a quick whoosh under the tap was sufficient tbh, I'd be reluctant to use anywhere that didn't have seperate jugs etc for the milks
• and the wand to heat the milk wasn't mentioned at all? Surely if you need to ask to rinse out the jug the use of a wand that is often caked in milk would have to be mentioned too?

@MILLYmo0se The server knew that her understanding of the request didn't make sense (ie wash a jug because of dairy allergy but still make the drink with cows milk) but she says she accepted that the mother knew best. She had tried to query it but obviously they were talking at cross purposes and misunderstanding each other. She basically thought mother had confirmed that was what she wanted. But yes, that understanding of the order made no sense.

Yes she said that the customer has to ask for one of the non-dairy milks and that the mother didn't ask.

Apparently the costa hot chocolate powder is NOT made with milk...on their allegen list the soya hot chocolate is marked C for possible cross contamination, I'm not sure if the cross contamination could come from the utensils or powder or both though.

I don't think washing out the jug would be sufficient, I think they are supposed to use separate jugs, but then the mother asked for them to wash out the jug so maybe she's used to places doing that?

Yes no mention of the wand that I could see, but only bits and pieces of the statements and testimony have been printed so it's impossible to see the entirety of the transcripts.

Ahhh okay makes more sense now. So why are the news saying she took a sip of mum’s hot chocolate? To me that sounds like hers was made with soya. I don’t mean to sound insensitive but as I said my child would not be going to Costa if they had such a serious dairy allergy. It doesn’t seem like the parent took the allergy seriously enough.

I didn't see that on any article as far as I remember.

Yes and the mother also said that she felt that the server did not understand her so she leaned forward.

But yet she still allowed her daughter to drink the drink…..you have a child with a severe allergy, you can see and hear that the barista is confused and English is not her first language YET you still give your child the drink without even trying it first? It’s unbelievable.

I don't think the coffee person should be blamed. Why didn't the mum have the epipen that's what they are for. Situations like this. If mistakes never happened then there would be no need for them.

They didn't follow procedure so they should be blamed at least 50%