Milk allergy death- should the book be thrown at the staff involved?

[mids2019]

....or if you are minimum wage staff member working in a stressed environment without English as a first language there should be leniency. Doctors are paid for life and death decisions but are Costa staff?

The summing up at the inquest is that there was miscommunication between mother and staff. It was also noted that an epipen had been prescribed but neither Hannah nor her mother had it with them on that day. Without wishing to heap further agony on the mother, that really is not sensible. A person with any chronic condition really ought to have essential medications with them when out and about.

We stopped eating out after a restaurant we went to fairly frequently made a mistake. Small steak and chips which somehow someone added butter to and we swiftly ended up in the back of an ambulance with DC spending two days in hospital.

Limiting yes, but my DC made it to a clinical trial, which we had to stop twice, that cured their life threatening allergy.

I disagree that the risk of something bad happening with an anaphylactic response to dairy is tiny. It really isn't, dairy is everywhere.

It sounds as if the poor girl was actually extremely lucky to be at the dentist with staff and equipment who could help her, but was even more unlucky to have a mum who for whatever reason decided no let's get you some pills from the chemist. To be honest, the dentist staff should have insisted the medication was administered as they are trained to recognise anaphylaxis, even when this mother can't despite having a daughter with apparently three severe allergies. I'm sorry to say it like it is as I don't envy her living with the guilt of this but ultimately the blame comes down to not allowing your child access to medicine they need to live.

Have you an allergy @BlackPanther75 ?

If you don't maybe try really thinking about a life where you can never eat out.

Most people who do have allergies know how unrealistic an ask this is. They try to minimise the risks while still having as normal a life as possible.

Crackers to think that it is unrealistic to think about not eating out. I work with disadvantaged people who are not in a financial position to eat out.

The dentist said she didn't recognise that the reaction was a potentially severe one at that point.
The dentist has a nut allergic child.

And if you’re going to charge the server with neglect shouldn’t the mum be charged with neglect too?

(i don’t think either should)

Try it yourself maybe for a while. Or for your child. Maybe for the next 5 years or so.
We'll talk again then.

I don’t no but my brother in law is a celiac and we socialise with them often so i know what he goes through and how many mistakes restaurants make

i think the risk of eating out is on the person with the allergy. They need to accept that risk and manage it

Maybe have a chat with your brother and ask him how he feels about the suggestion that he never eats out anywhere for the rest of his life, never travels without bringing a hamper with him, never socialises with family and friends on occasions where food is involved etc.

In case you haven't RTWT, I did try it, for several years.

I did it for years! I was homeschooling and broke. I had to save just so we could get the train and pay for meetups. It was a choice between activities or eating out.

I really don't know what world you live in where a fast coffee is an absolute non-negotiable necessity and eating in restaurants are essential. As pointed out many people are prevented from eating out due to finances, which was the point made earlier, let alone because they stand to possibly lose their life.

But someone tell the government to raise the benefit threshold as eating out is now a total essential. Forget the food bank!

I wonder if we will get to a stage though where restaurants will just say quite clearly that they can’t or won’t cater for allergies if they are told it’s their fault/negligence when a mistake is made. Maybe even stop stocking non dairy milk or gluten free food?

similar to how so much pre packed food now states “may contain gluten, etc”. It’s arse covering. The food has no gluten ingredients in it but because they won’t tighten up production they slap that disclaimer on so many labels possibly unnecessarily but someone would feel they can’t take the risk.

will be interesting now the coroner has said it was Costa negligence will the individual server get blamed or Costa. I assume the solicitors will be gunning for Costa.

So this now makes more sense as the requesting the jug be washed, the daughter recognising that it wasn't milk and rushing to the loo to possibly clean her mouth was indicative of serious reactions (though not anaphylaxis) happening in the past.

I wonder why the epipen was left behind and whether it was in date as it suggests they had never needed to use it before, but then and again from previous statements on this thread, they don't give epi-pens out unless your reactions can potentially be life threatening

With the best will in the world, my celiac friend is not at risk of stopping breathing or being blue lighted into hospital. A serious condition but not immediately life threatening.

As for socialising with family - I always took a platter of food for DC unless I was 200% confident in the family member/friend. Because seeing your DC fast tracked to hospital and having to stay in is not something that I'd encourage.

Sorry, yes I have read the thread but don't take note of individual usernames usually. Just went back and reread your comment.

Yes, you did avoid restaurants for a long while...but I'm guessing for at least part of that time you knew your DC was on a clinical trial and were hoping things would improve and that this was a temporary measure? And that's a different situation if so.

Do you really think it's realistic to ask allergy sufferers to lock themselves away from so much socialising, so much human interaction for the rest of their lives. Because it's not just restaurants. Always refusing when invited to meals at friends or family, no weddings or similar events, for the kids no birthday parties, for the teens a very different college experience?

Most families with allergies do their very best to minimise the risks and stay safe but do try to strike a balance too.

Not a temporary measure - an eight year measure. Yes I do think it is realistic because I did it. DC had a reaction on a transatlantic flight at 19 months, I stuck to the UK for nearly 7 years post that.

Reaction was too severe for a clinical trial until aged 7 and we had to pause it twice (because the reaction was too severe).

Mumsnet is a parallel universe at times. Not everyone chooses to eat out or can afford to eat out. Birthday parties always involved a platter of home made allergen free food and parents always bought into hand washing etc.

I take your point re coeliac disease, but for the most part I think it's the allergy sufferers who are saying as I do on this thread. That you have to find a balance and teach your children to do so as safety as they can while still taking part in life.

For the most part it's those who seem to have no experience of living with an allergy who say they'd never let their child eat anything they thenselves hadn't prepared or that they'd never eat out again. And I can't help thinking they really haven't considered the implications of living like that.

You seem to be exceptional in this regard and I can't help wondering if this was because the allergy was, thankfully, a temporary thing in your family's case.

In case it's relevant my DC has been hospitalised as a result of allergy, not blue lighted though. The food was eaten at our home (given to DC by a relative).

FFS, It wasn’t temporary, not until the Uni of Leicester hospital copied Addenbrookes’ clinical trial on peanuts, applying it to dairy.

It was an allergy that made me give up my senior corporate position and become a consultant for seven years because no one local to where we lived would provide wrap around care for a child who stopped breathing at the drop of a hat, or crumb.

Half of the people on this thread have not walked the walk.

Sorry, I X posted earlier @GradGirl but I still don't think the position you took could be maintained lifelong without sacrificing too much. An individual choice I know. After 18 years it would no longer be yours to make.

I am walking the walk.

Alive and not going to coffee shops?

Have you ever experienced the terror of not knowing if your child would come round, if their brain would be the same after they’ve been anaphylactic for a while?

I know what option I’d choose. As I’ve said previously, restaurants, coffee shops and travel are the preserve of the wealthy of the world. So many people don’t participate.

My DC wouldn’t consider that they missed out (apart from ice creams maybe when out) because our allergy safe home became the central meeting place, the entertainment venue through primary and continuing on into secondary schools.

Fair enough, but other parents maybe aren't in a position to make their house the central entertainment venue. Or have the option to stay at home as a consultant.
And everything will change once they move out anyway.

Not many allergy families can or do make the choice to avoid restaurants etc so completely. I know we haven't and yes, it's probably because we haven't experienced the trauma you've gone through, not to the same extent.

I don’t think this discussion is helpful. I also do not take my DC to eat out / take food and medication everywhere etc etc. I maintain a very high level of vigilance and am constantly checking and anticipating mistakes. As DC get older it has become harder and more stressful to manage the allergy, more so because of well meaning other parents, relatives and school who are frankly a joke etc. Yes the responsibility lies with me as a parent and eventually them as the individual with the allergy, but nonetheless I would welcome better regulations, proper training and greater education around allergies - why would we not want to encourage this? Then life might be slightly less stressful and safer. Never mind my DC one day being able to experience a more relaxed lifestyle. This thread alone has demonstrated many misconceptions around allergy - these increase risk. Yes it is possible to live as you have described - and we do! - but it doesn’t mean that improvement cannot be sought!