Expat or immigrant?

[dylexicdementor11]

I’ve noticed that many Americans and Brits on mumsnet tend to refer to themselves as expats if they live outside of their country of origin.

So an American living in the U.K. will say that they are an expat instead of saying that they are an immigrant.
But many people from other countries are referred to as immigrants even if their stay in a host country will be temporary.

Why is that?

Well then why are international students who come for even a 1yr master course classified as immigrants? are they?? The term I hear is “foreign student” not immigrant or indeed emigrant from their own country.

Surely the point being made by describing someone as “Expat” is that they are a patriot of another country?

Often, the host country's rules permit expatriate workers on the basis that they are employed in another country (of origin) and the right to reside is tied to the job. Lose or quit the job, and you're out. You cannot apply for citizenship unless native born in the Gulf for example. A great-niece was born in Saudi Arabia, and there's no question of her having a local passport.

@TomeTome It’s still confusing though, because people can hold more than one citizenship! One of DD’s friends holds three through descent.

She’s an Italian citizen, for example, but she wasn’t born there and never lived there growing up. If she moves there, how would she be defined?!
I think she would consider herself an American immigrant, but who knows.

And how would she answer “WHERE DO YOU COME FROM?”

Like other have said referring to yourselves as ‘expats’ doesn’t make you racist and doesn’t mean you won’t integrate. Absurd to lump everyone under the same assumption based on a word that’s been around for years - where perhaps connotations were vastly different,

My husband got a work visa to work in another country with his company. Everything paid for us to be there. We - me and my three kids- are given a dependents visa - initially with no right to work, no social security number nothing. And if my husband lost his job we’d have leave the country in 90 days or thereabouts, as beyond the job we have no right to be there. We weren’t immigrants either. Perhaps I should say temporary worker with temporary working rights? Expats is faster.

To me Expats means paid for short term contracts - obviously beyond a certain time you move from expat to immigrant.

Immigrants may not have had the luxury of paid for route into work/visa and nor do I want to detract from their journey which may have been vastly different to mine.

I am no longer an expat as I am now a permanent resident. Before that I classed myself as an expat. I am not racist and if I occasionally seek out a tin of bins in a UK food shop in my country it doesn’t mean I refuse to assimilate or try new foods. It means I fancy some beans on toast - nothing more.

Some countries, including the UK, recognise that people can hold dual nationality; others don't. I could have applied for US citizenship after five years, but the USA would have regarded me as an American and claimed first dibs on my global income. But I could have kept my UK passport forever.

I’m guessing that she’d say American as that’s where she was born and brought up. Who knows.

Funny that I never hear people calling Filipinos or Nigerians who are working for the NHS 'expats'. Even though many are sending money home and plan to return to their home country upon retirement 🧐

@HarliLane

When I wanted to create a storm I would drop into conversation that ‘of course you are/were immigrants in Spain’ and maybe that's the same view that the Spanish people have of you! 😆
What was their response? How did they justify themselves?

You seem to have assumed most migrants don't support themselves financially.
Are you one of those people who think migrants are a tax on the benefits system?

Migrants are as a group, net contributors. So why would you use 'financially support themselves' as a marker of an ex-pat over an immigrant?

Think we found the racist.

This is what I thought too!

I live in Japan with PR status and call myself an immigrant.

To me, “expat” is for those with an expat package (or remuneration levels so high it may as well be a package), and who have no long term commitment to the country and will be staying for a limited period of time.

British people who go to Spain to retire should be called immigrants, not expats, IMO, and I’ve no idea why the term “expat” is applied to them.

We're living in the UK, with citizenship and uk passports (DH was born in the UK), and despite intending/hoping to go home ultimately, I call us immigrants.

Eyeroll.

There is nothing racist about the term “expat” itself (although there can be racism if there are double standards about the way the term is applied, like when any sort of white immigrant gets called an expat simply because they are white). As long as the term really is talking about people with an actual ex-pat type setup with their company or organization, it’s fine.

In Japan, quite a lot of software engineers are from India and are brought over with various packages to live for 3-5 years-ish, in most cases. I call them expats as well, because that’s what they are. They are expats who have come for short periods on expat type packages/arrangements for a limited number of years, and they use Indian schools and do not integrate to any massive extent.

I am white and consider myself an immigrant.

Feelings of superiority. Expats believe their host country is lucky to have them.

For us, the terms are fairly interchangeable.

One nuance, again based on our experience, is that an expat is a temporary situation, funded by, eg and employer. Immigrant is independent of an employer, and is often permanent.

Yes this is what I thought.

Before I was born and when I was little, my dad worked abroad a lot for work. It was a year in the Netherlands, 18 months in Saudi Arabia, 2 years in Chad etc. He wouldn't really have described it as "I emigrated to the Netherlands, then emigrated again to Saudi Arabia".

I was just listening to a Politico EU podcast and the presenter referred frequently to ‘the expat bubble’ and ‘expat community’ in Brussels and in other European cities. She doesn’t just mean people who have been expatriated for work purposes: she means Brits, Americans and other English speakers currently living there, some temporary some not.

British people who go to Spain to retire should be called immigrants, not expats, IMO, and I’ve no idea why the term “expat” is applied to them. Exactly; it’s become a more general term for Brits living abroad.

It would be interesting to know if non-English speakers living away from home and their communities are also referred to casually as ‘expats’ in the same way. I suspect not.

I live in a country full of "expats" and "immigrants". In practice, the "expats" are the white and/or rich, the immigrants are the "others".

Sometimes they come from the same country, but are treated like one or the other depending on the reasons they're here. If they bought property here and live from their assets abroad, they're expats. If they came to work as uber drivers and are trying to build a better life for their family here, they're definitely immigrants.

(Of course I don't agree with this, I think it's nasty to label and divide people like that)

That's a great way to put it. Some countries agree, offering tax benefits and other advantages to the "right type of immigrants" (henceforth known as expats).

But it’s the company that offers the advantages, not the country. My dh had a tax free salary, but income tax was paid, but by the company, just not from his salary. The company also paid our rent, school fees, health insurance, dental, flights home, travel allowance etc. China as a country didn’t feel lucky to have us and would not have allowed us to stay at the end of my dh’s contract.
The advantage is for the company: they need the expert knowledge or experience of the expat for x time and then they send you home again once the local employees have the necessary knowledge/experience. From my experience : European company acquires part of Chinese business, hq is in Europe and they want the business to be run in a certain way, send employee as an expat, pay them an enhanced salary as working outside home country, train local staff, expat leaves.
Ime it has nothing to do with race: my dh was the only UK expat, others were from HK, Europe, India, Singapore..

The terms mean different things. An expat in the usual sense will not be expecting to stay for ever. Typically they will be working for X years in a foreign country, but will always know that they’ll be going home eventually.
Dh and I were expats in Abu Dhabi and Oman for 13 years. We were never immigrants.

Rubbish. Expat and immigrant mean different things. Nothing to do with hate or racism.

I actually know Filipino expats - executives working in banking. And you were saying???

Years ago in my first job, I worked with a lot of Polish people who came to the U.K. to save money so they could buy a house outright back home. They were always called immigrants but probably should have been called expats.

I'm Irish and refer to myself as an immigrant when people start talking about immigration issues. It seems to take a lot of people by surprise until they really think about what the word means. I have no immediate plans to return to Ireland and have set up a life here.