Expat or immigrant?

[dylexicdementor11]

I’ve noticed that many Americans and Brits on mumsnet tend to refer to themselves as expats if they live outside of their country of origin.

So an American living in the U.K. will say that they are an expat instead of saying that they are an immigrant.
But many people from other countries are referred to as immigrants even if their stay in a host country will be temporary.

Why is that?

I would call them expats if they were here temporarily.

I have been an expat - I worked overseas in a country that has incredibly restrictive immigration laws and so I was only allowed to work a few years then leave. I would have liked to have been an immigrant (good economic opportunities and lifestyle) but they wouldn’t allow it. Interestingly in most of these places the expats are mainly westerners (usually white) while the local population are not. Yet the expats are the ones without the rights.

that to me is an expat - people in places temporarily where they do not intend to, or are not permitted to settle. An immigrant is someone who is moving permanently. It’s a bit of a cliche used by a certain type that immigrant is some sort of slur but I don’t agree. Often calling someone an expat is pointing out they are only somewhere temporarily and do not have the rights of a citizen.

I agree that expat can carry a stigma. You’re just temporary so you don’t get to have a say in the issues of the country you live in. Often in many places, their existence is quite precarious and expats are openly treated less favorably than the local population (eg in the Middle East). An immigrant will at least get the rights of a citizen when they qualify.

Yes it is racist. Though often said in ignorance rather than knowingly, in the way that someone who said the n-word would know it's racist.

I often heard the expression 'expat' when I was a child and youth. I used to think it was just used by British people to describe fellow brits temporarily living abroad. Didn't occur to me about the double standards.

To my shame, I used it in conversation (years ago) once in that context, and a good friend lovingly explained to me why it's wrong, especially as I absolutely describe myself as anti-racist. I was horrified once I understood, and I've never said it again.

I'm grateful to said friend gently meeting me where I was at, rather than shaming me, which would have been devastating.

I guess we're all on a journey.

This.

Good lord. What utter virtue signalling nonsense.

Everyone uses this as an example of racism.

But I think it's how long you plan to be there
1-10 years = ex pat as you do plan to go back to your own country.

Building a life here for your children and grandchildren = immigrant.

When I went to Asia for a year I was an ex pat. If I moved to Australia and bought a home with no plans to come back to uk I'd be emigrating and therefore an immigrant.

Looking at eg the Indian community in the uk I would say the lovely family that run the corner shop with their parents are immigrants they have no plans to move back to India. An Indian banker working in canary wharf for a couple of years is an ex pat.

I do think there is an assumption you're a professional if you're an ex pat though. A fruit picker on a seasonal visa or an au pair here for a year wouldn't usually be called one.

Well exactly. A lot of the thread misses the fact that an expat is a type of migrant or immigrant in the same way any other is, it describes a particular pattern of migration plus not only whites use it. There's plenty of real racism around. No need to go digging.

I have lived overseas for 5 years and refer to myself as an expat because I still see it as a temporary move. I'm not racist. I'm mixed race. My dad moved to the UK in the 60s and I say he's an immigrant because he moved permanently.

The 700,000 immigrants number in this country doesn’t distinguish between (temporary) expats and (more permanent) immigrants. It even counts international students.

I am Indian but started out here as an expat. However, I met my English husband and think I will be here for the foreseeable future so am now an immigrant even though that was not my original intent.

Traditionally the difference lay in how you ended up overseas - expats were posted by their companies or government eg my friends are in the Middle East for 2 years seconded to that branch, his contract is with his employer in the U.K. and gets accommodation, flights home etc. Migrants on the other hand have moved permanently to another country, and any employment (their contract etc) is not linked to the country they left even if there was a branch where they lived before

Good point.

My source for use of the word immigrant is looking around at what people say here in the UK on the news or in my city. I've never yet heard an Asian or African called an expat, even if they are sent here by their country.

My source for the word expat is more than a decade working abroad where Brits would always be expats even if they had settled there with no intention of moving home.

Why do you say that? I thought the post was quite understandable based on my experience.

I'm a white American, and I've lived in the UK for 25 years now. Immigrant vs expat is pure racism, for sure.

As others have said to me immigrant moves permanently and usually takes up citizenship expat is like people who go to Spain then complain how terrible the UK is unti they need the NHS and move back

It's not experience, it's a friend's opinion.

I think part of the issue is that it's an old fashioned term associated with colonial times. That doesn't necessarily make modern day usage inherently racist, language and working practices move on. Plus as a PP says, there is usually a class element (does it apply to fruit pickers as well as diplomats)? Not necessarily the most straightforward term but not racist, it has a meaning that doesn't exclude, diminish or aggrandise anyone.

It is MY experience. Of course it's an old fashioned term - the racism comes because people use one term for Brits and Americans, and another for no Europeans even if they're all doing the same thing. That's my experience and I'm clearly not alone in that.

I'm not sure it's classist - secretaries would be called expats as much as business leaders.

And before anyone comments about me saying secretaries - they would generally be far less paid than the CEO or MD!

Sorry, I wasn't trying to virtue signal at all. Apologies if it came across that way. I was just explaining my understanding of the word, and how I came to that understanding 🤷‍♀️

And my experience is the opposite - we use the term based on how/why we are here and not where we are from or what colour we are.

Yes, you are right.

Clearly not everyone uses it the same way.

The Brits living in Spain like to call themselves ex-pats.

Expats are a type of temporary immigrant who is only in a country for work/job reasons.

Some people misuse the term- ie all the OAPs who have retired abroad are not expats but emigrants from the U.K. and immigrants to Spain/Italy/France/Canada etc

The reason behind the misuse of expat is racist, in that many British feel they are coming from a superior country(U.K.) to their new country and they associate immigrants with people coming from what they see as an inferior country to a new country.

Well, I see what you're saying, but often people refer to those living temporarily in the UK - to study or work in NHS or whatever, as immigrants still. So, there definitely is a racist component, even if it's totally subconscious.

My husband is American but is now a British citizen. Is he an immigrant? I guess so. Yet because he is American and white, he’s been widely accepted. Not fair is it? Very much racism.

Maybe expats (in the case of older people in Spain) is that they plan to continue their British lifestyle in Spain whereas younger people would problem adopt Spanish language and lifestyle and be an immigrant in their new country.