Expat or immigrant?

[dylexicdementor11]

I’ve noticed that many Americans and Brits on mumsnet tend to refer to themselves as expats if they live outside of their country of origin.

So an American living in the U.K. will say that they are an expat instead of saying that they are an immigrant.
But many people from other countries are referred to as immigrants even if their stay in a host country will be temporary.

Why is that?

surely religion, lifestyle would be similar as is language so not sure it’s racism perhaps more he is similar to white Brits he mixes with -unless you are living in a multicultural area

I think a lot of people who call themselves ex pats don’t actually work do they?
They are immigrants the same as someone who comes to live in the UK is.

I thought expat was for things like teachers, doctors, army communities, maybe voluntary sector workers. They move abroad for work and form communities. I thought it was more to define the fact they often have compounds that they live on for work and things like members club that they frequent. They generally don't tend or want to stay but some might and get citizenship. I didn't think it was an official term more just a word that is used. They have a work visa.

Immigrants are people granted some kind of leave to remain and generally want to stay.

From reading this thread though it sounds like we are all not that clear. I think this must be part of the problem. If you don't explain what is what then what ??

Expat for me is someone who moves to another country, never bothers to learn the local language, expects the same cuisine and perhaps social life as if in their country of origin.

Not my experience. I don’t think I knew any other expats in China who didn’t learn the language, to varying degrees of competence. Depending on where you live you don’t have access to any ‘home’ cuisine. I cooked European dishes for my family but local cuisine when we ate out.

Yes, I always thought this too.

I'm a trailing spouse ex-pat, and have been a number of countries. Work for a few years then go back to the UK (where we pay all out taxes in both countries) then maybe another country. Other nationalities who do the same no matter where they are from be it Europe/Africa/Middle East and so on, all call themselves ex-pats as none of us are here permanently, only for the duration of our contracts.

And no, not all like to be in a ex-pat bubble of people from the same country etc and join all the clubs, it can be mind numbing boring and very superficial. But I do go to local events and get involved with local people and I have more friends who are local rather than other Brits, same everywhere we have lived I make an effort to know whats going on be it a concert weekend markets or cultural activities. Of course you get a taste for things you cannot get from home thats only natural and happens to those who move country permanently not just an ex-pat, but I am always open to new foods and cooking (even if Im pretty rubbish) Finding an unknown vegetable in the store and then googling what you can cook with it, its good fun.

I really dont connect being called an ex-pat with racism.

"Ex pat" has fuck all legal status is probably the way to go. Spain and France (for example) don't have government "ex pat" ministers. They have a minister for immigration (or similarly titled).

You don't pass through "ex-patriation" queue in the airport. You pass through "immigration".

See also: "Common-law marriage" for a similar load of bollocks.

@SerendipityJane was anyone suggesting but had a legal status? I was an expat as:
not a local contract
no right to remain in country
pension etc still all paid in UK
no intention of remaining in country permanently
expat is a subsection of foreigner, but not the same as being an immigrant. Ime it had very little to do with being white as most expats where I lived were Korean.

Expatriates are temporary and immigrants are permanent. Why does everything have to be about race?

Absolutely. My DP’s moan about ‘immigrants coming here, using our services, talking their own language, own shops….’

Yet they lived in an ‘expat’ community where my DF had specialist healthcare in a top Spanish hospital, attended groups where only English was spoken, bought their Heinz beans in a British owned shop!
They did draw the line at the British run ‘urbanisation committee’ who expressed their utter dismay that a Spanish family had bought a house amongst them! ‘How very dare a Spanish family but a house….in Spain’.

When I wanted to create a storm I would drop into conversation that ‘of course you are/were immigrants in Spain’ and maybe that's the same view that the Spanish people have of you! 😆

Expat = temporary, visa sponsored by employer before entering the country

Immigrant = permanent, visa/residential status arranged personally

This. And not just Spain. And they definitely don't see it as temporary.

This old chestnut. Always comes up to whip up discord.

I have been an expat when I lived temporarily in other countries, while I have been an immigrant in countries where I've settled. Ive met plenty of non white expats and white immigrants.

The qualification is intent to settle, not skin tone.

Again that's an opinion I'm afraid. I agree with you that that should be the definition. But in reality have you ever heard any Brits living out their retirement in Spain call themselves immigrants? Several I know have gone there to escape immigrants and definitely see themselves as expats - a whole different, more acceptable title.

@Zonder I don’t disagree with you about the attitudes of some retirees, but as PP’s have explained, the term “ex pat” is also linked to your source of income.

So if you’re British living on your British pensions in Spain, I can see that the term “ex pat” might be applicable.

When I married an American, I emigrated.

When DSis/BiL worked for a multinational company, across Asia, Africa, Latin America and Europe, they were expatriates -- because their right to reside in those countries was based on a contract of employment, usually of fixed term. They moved on the employer's say so.

Expats tend to be non permanent. Immigrants intend to reside long term.

It's very subjective. Lots of people on here have said that it depends how long they're staying.

Expat technically means ex patriate - outside of one's native country. It seems all other definitions are more cultural.

So you know what you would describe as 'racists'? Does that make you 'racist adjacent'? How many racists removed is it ok to be in modern society?

I lived in other countries for many years and did not consider myself an expat. But I also didn't think I was an immigrant because it was very difficult to be allowed to stay there ....so it was like I couldn't immigrate because of lack of permission.

I was a "foreigner", albeit one who tried to integrate and had fluent local language.

I don't know what you're talking about. Word salad. I haven't even used the word racist in this comment.

Does knowing someone with racist views means you're like them? What if I know someone who agrees with Trump? Does that make me a Trump adjacent?

You implied that it was racist to call yourself an Expat and that you knew people who called themselves Expats.

It's not my fault you can't follow your own weird logic.

The expats that I knew all refused to learn the local language. One couple lived in Spain; the other moved to the Netherlands for work purposes.

When I hear "expat" I automatically think "Refusing to be assimilated."