Expat or immigrant?

[dylexicdementor11]

I’ve noticed that many Americans and Brits on mumsnet tend to refer to themselves as expats if they live outside of their country of origin.

So an American living in the U.K. will say that they are an expat instead of saying that they are an immigrant.
But many people from other countries are referred to as immigrants even if their stay in a host country will be temporary.

Why is that?

Well yes, @Juyjuly32 , but are you an immigrant if you’re only there for a short time?

I've heard a lot of people in different places, eg diplomatic staff of all races refer to themselves as expats. I take it to mean present for a certain temporary purpose, not really intending to settle or integrate fully. Perhaps this period will expand by years.

I think retirement counts as, without wishing to sound insensitive, there is something of a time limit to that (hopefully a long one) and people are not necessarily wishing to become an integrated part of the country in the same way as workers, students or those needing to relocate say for refuge.

It gets pulled out as an example of whites being exceptionalist but I think it's often used for a specific purpose and I have absolutely heard non white people use it themselves. Those intending to settle, here without a specific role, or are visiting, I wouldn't count as expats.

I've always used immigrant.

I'm not so sure. Perhaps everyday language is used too loosely.

I worked with Syrian refugees who in ‘everyday language’ were termed immigrants.
Yet, the programme and agreements through the Home Office, around them included that they were here for five years, with an expectation that they return home to support their own country.

The were never called ‘expats’!

@Waterboatlass Yes, I’ve lived in the US for years now so I’m definitely an immigrant. Contrast me to a friend who’s been here for 18 months on a work project and will return to France next year. I don’t think she’d view herself as an immigrant, she’s here for a set period.

Expat = temporary. Immigrant = permanent, as in someone who has emigrated from their country of origin. My mother was an immigrant, moved here in the fifties and was here until her death. I found her papers from when she first arrived. She was classified as an alien on entry.

Perhaps @CatherinedeBourgh ’s explanation of people who are relocated by their employers for work with fully funded packages is the best description of “expats” then?

The rest of us are immigrants or temporary workers.

I was an expat for 25 years - temporary assignment, no intention to remain in the country after the end of the assignment and permission to remain was solely based on employment. We were also on a expat package: rent, private school fees, car and driver, travel allowance and not a local contract.

Also where we lived the expats came from many different areas: South Africa, South Korea, Hong Kong, Europe, USA, Argentina, Australia, India…

'Expat' was meant to be someone sent by their company to work in another branch in another country. They are still connected to their company in their home country. The duration of stay doesn't matter because no one knows anybody intention or future plans. They may even live there forever while working in that company.

If intention and plans were the case, most "immigrants" here should be "expats" because they do go back and forth and some return to their home country or at least "intend to at some point, someday". We know the pushback if those people see as "immigrants" (below them/less than) are called expats (the superior ones).

Most people like to call themselves "expats" when they're simply relocating to a different country for a better life, like every other immigrant. It makes them feel special and "not like those immigrants".

As far as the Chinese were concerned we were all foreigners Laowai or waiguoren - both terms include ‘wai’ which means outside and is a pretty accurate description.

I'm an immigrant. I would call myself that. I don't understand the word ex pat.

@BruFord I don't really use the term immigrant. However even if you are working some where for 7 days abroad. Yes you are a foreigner regardless.

@ShanghaiDiva That makes sense. An expat doesn’t have a local contract so they really aren’t tied to the country that they’re working in.

That does makes my French friend an immigrant as she’s employed by a local university, even though it’s only for two years. I’ve always associated immigration with extended residence, but I’m wrong.

This.

Expat - temporarily 'abroad' until the post/contract/working life is over, at the latest return 'home' to retire

Immigrant - moved countries permanently for whatever reason with no intention of ever returning.

This

Lived in France for 30 years. I'm an immigrant.

It may depend where you live. I define myself and would be defined by others as an immigrant here in the US.

I don’t think that the term expat is commonly used here (at least nowadays). Several of my neighbors are from other countries-Croatia, India, Peru, Russia- and I think we’d all define ourselves as immigrants. We wouldn’t find the term offensive. 🤷

I have been an expat, in that a company expatriated me for work, paid for visa, relocation, accommodation etc on a temporary basis.

I’m the daughter of an immigrant and a wife of one. Both reluctantly, but temporary turned into permanence.

Racism.

Well it is

temporary (although long term maybe)- ex pat (you live with no recourse to public funds in that country, have a temporary visa)
permanent (although not certain maybe) - immigrant.

i live in Europe and am legally and I call myself, an immigrant.
Of course people call out racism with this, but they have literal and specific, different definitions.

I would say it's just to think it's a racism issue.

When did you ever hear of a non European coming to UK being called an expat? Even if they're not here for ever.

And when I lived abroad people who had been there 20 years and had no intention of returning to the UK or of learning the local language would still call themselves expats.

For me it’s summed up by the chat I had with a British guy in oz - he was moving over there to live forever and when I asked him why, he told me there were too many immigrants in the UK these days - said this with zero self awareness - he naturally was an ex-pat you understand. When I pointed out that I was an immigrant to the UK, he said oh no I don’t mean people like you. Can you possibly guess what made me acceptable?!

My visa is called a non-immigrant class visa. I don’t plan to stay here indefinitely (and can’t, unless I change my visa type). Calling myself an immigrant would be misleading/wrong/a lie. Friends (from same home country and same skin colour) call themselves immigrants because they have different visas/status.

Me too