Expat or immigrant?

[dylexicdementor11]

I’ve noticed that many Americans and Brits on mumsnet tend to refer to themselves as expats if they live outside of their country of origin.

So an American living in the U.K. will say that they are an expat instead of saying that they are an immigrant.
But many people from other countries are referred to as immigrants even if their stay in a host country will be temporary.

Why is that?

I haven't lived in the UK for 25 years and I don't expect to move back at this stage. I'm an immigrant, without a doubt.

This! I’ve had this said to me more than a few times. “Oh but you’re different!” How exactly pray tell? 🙄

I read the same conversation on tattle today. The consensus there was pretty much the same as here

I don’t think language has kept up with today's global movement tbh.

Few immigrants are granted indefinite leave to stay when they first arrive in a country. I was initially given 12-month visas in the US.

Now that I understand what expat really means (i.e., you’re not on a local contract), the word “immigrant” seems to cover everyone else. It doesn’t really make sense for someone who leaves after 12 months but what other word is there?

Yes, you've explained it perfectly. Ex Pat is temporary.

Surely if you emigrate to a country ie
NZ or Oz etc when you arrive in that country you become an immigrant.

Expat, I believe, is when your employer sends you to another country for a fixed term and you'll return to your home country once the time is up.

However, these days the two words are used interchangeably.

Absolutely racism. Also ex-pats like to socialise with other ex-pats, yet when immigrants do it, they don't want to mix (when usually they're not mixing because they're not welcome)

That makes you a migrant but not an immigrant. The technical term actually is circular migration, and the only reason it isn't more prevalent in OECD countries is paradoxically because of immigration restrictions: third country nationals who.might otherwise move back home (say for a few years to take care of aging patents) end up staying instead because they don't want to jeopardize their settled status.

An expat in the technical sense wouldn't just be a temporary migrant but somebody who's on a home country payroll.

I've always thought of myself as both.

Expat because sent by company.

Immigrant because I've immigrated.

The strange case was when I was posted to the UK on an expat package (I'm British). Then I thought of myself as sort-of an expat (meeting one part of the usual test for that word), but not an immigrant (am in home country).

It's certainly not always a pejorative distinction. Most expats I know see immigration as a good thing (and recognise they are immigrants). And 'expat' can carry a bit of a stigma too, depending on context.

Certainly not the distinction made in the expat circles I've moved in my whole working life across the world.

Many expats of all races. Almost all considered themselves to be immigrants (the language topic comes up from time to time). In fact I don't think I recall ever meeting an expat who said they were not an immigrant.

I recently localised, in Asia (employment contract). I'm still white. Still an immigrant. I'm just not an expat any more.

I accept other groups may use that word differently. Where are you and which groups do you speak to who make the distinction based on race?

I don't see a consensus. There seem to be three main answers so far:

1. Employment contract type
2. Temporary vs permanent
3. Race

Some people see expat as a subcategory of immigrant, others not.

I think it would be interesting if people were to post their source.

Also, those saying 'race' I suspect are taking about how they think others make the distinction, not how they do.

I agree that often the distinction is about whether the move is likely to be temporary or permanent, and whether a company sent you overseas or you did it yourself.

But many, many (British/US/Aussie etc) people who move overseas having applied for work there themselves, and with the intention to stay long term or to move from one country to another with no plan to return to their home country, class themselves as expats.

I'm British and I teach overseas. Most international school teachers spend a number of years in one country (from 2 to 10+) before moving on to another, then another. Many don't intend to return home and will eventually settle in one of the countries they worked in or choose another place. But they form a considerable chunk of the 'expat community' in many cities all over the world.

Personally, I'm fine with expat or immigrant. I have expat privileges with my job and don't know how long I will stay in any country, but I wasn't sent here by a company and each time I move I do so indendently. But then, I don't see immigrant as pejorative. I do always find it interesting discussing politics with British people overseas and sometimes hearing xenophobic and anti-immigration views from people who are themselves immigrants...

I once had a discussion about these terms with a 6th form class and a Japanese boy said well based on the definition of work etc his family were expats, and it's true that in schools we would consider all the non-local students as expats. But most of them fit the more classic definition of being there for a period of time due to their parents' work.

Having said all this, yes, I do think in many ways the distinction is at least partly based on race (and class and nationality). I do think more 'expats' are becoming conscious of this and use the term immigrant more now.

What do the brits living in Spain call themselves? I've heard them referred to as expat even though many have retired there.

Care workers who come here on a temporary work visa aren't referred to as expats I imagine.

One of us is an expat. One of them is an immigrant. Part racism, part xenophobia.

Yep.

People called us expats the 17 years we stayed in UK.
I suppose it was because we were European, legal in the country, white, working, paid our taxes and the children were doing great at school.
We had no "expat privileges" whatsoever.

I don't think of myself as either tbh. I don't feel like an expat as I'm not here for work, I'm married to a local, no immediate plans to go back home...but I don't feel like an immigrant as I don't have a visa to permanently stay independent of my DH and DC and we're not planning to stay here permanently. It's not my goal to gain citizenship here.

My strict definitions are:

Expat - in the country for work (or their spouses work), on a fixed term working visa, no plans to try and settle permanently in the country. Makes regular visits "home".

Immigrant - has or is aiming for a permanent visa or to gain nationality, loses connection with "home" country.

What do the brits living in Spain call themselves? I've heard them referred to as expat even though many have retired there.

But do they speak the language, integrated into the local community? Most have not.

There is a huge expat community in most countries, their kids will turn into 3-culture-kids. (There's a book by that name).

I am one and am glad of it.

Immigrant - has or is aiming for a permanent visa or to gain nationality, loses connection with "home" country.

Utter rubbish. Most work 3 jobs in order to send money home to help the family.
Food, education for kids, etc.

Expat if you go for a contract / couple of years. Anything more is immigrant. I don't think it's racist, if used properly. You are not an expat if you've permanently moved.

That's my point. That there isn't much effort to integrate or learn the language by many.

Immigrants who attempt that in the U.K. are told to speak English.
I'm sure expat started off as a package of employer offers to work elsewhere. BiL did that for a few years then returned with his family to the U.K.

I think the terms expat v immigrant does seem to have become one dependant on race.

It can definitely be a race/class issue. My husband refers to himself as an immigrant here in the USA since he came on a green card and has now naturalised. (I have US citizenship via descent.)

There is a thing of white people calling themselves expats even when they're somewhere long term. However you're not an immigrant if you're on a time limited contract and visa. You could say "migrant worker," like the non-white workers get called in the Gulf. But certainly not an immigrant.

Most immigrants work 3 jobs? You're just categorising poor people as immigrants and rich people as expats there I think.

Actually where I live there is another category which is locally called "foreign workers". They are in the country on a fixed term visa (usually 2 years) but often stay much, much longer than that by renewing the visa. Rarely marry or really integrate into local society. Low paid jobs and sends money back to their home country to support family/start a better life fore themselves when they return home. If we're just saying expat or immigrant I'd call them expats.

Correct.

Can people stop saying expats are white and immigrants are not?
Firstly, it's as others explained temporary vs permanent, secondly I would like to remind pepole about hierarchy of witnesses. What you all mean is white English speaking pelple from certain Western countries, if anything.

I am currently expat/resident (everyone here si no matter what race/nationality), I am also immigrant in previous country-homebase now basically- where I am returning to soon.

I also never talked about myself as immigrant when talking to people from my native country. Emigrant would be most correct no?

So people who move to other countries from the UK/USA are racist, is essentially what this thread is saying? But those that move to the UK aren't?

I'm Canadian, lived in the UK from the 1970s til 3 years ago. And now live in France. I am Etranger, Inactif, and now a double whammy immigrant. I do attend 'expat' community groups, and also attend local French activities. And many mixed events. But according to this thread, if I use the term 'expat' I am immediately a racist.

From my experience people here use expat if they haven't got the ability to stay indefinitely.

Hilarious that it is the people upping sticks and moving to a different country and culture that are the racists in this Little Scenario. I mean, that's a natural activity of racists, right?