Expat or immigrant?

[dylexicdementor11]

I’ve noticed that many Americans and Brits on mumsnet tend to refer to themselves as expats if they live outside of their country of origin.

So an American living in the U.K. will say that they are an expat instead of saying that they are an immigrant.
But many people from other countries are referred to as immigrants even if their stay in a host country will be temporary.

Why is that?

That's quite the generalisation from 4 whole people!

Now I don't totally agree with this one. Many expats have to learn the language. I have several friends who were diplomats and had to learn languages. Same with various friends who worked with charities abroad.

Yeah, resort to insults if you run out of argument.

It was your argument, not mine.

And you said something odd and then resorted to insults.

Expat is someone moving countries every couple of years and not changing citizenship. Immigrant is someone staying put permanently. At least, that's how I see it

I summarised your argument, if you don't understand your own points, maybe think them through first?

I have a much larger sample size, and don’t know any expat who didn’t attempt to learn some local language. Even my dh with a grade E in O level French could manage a few sentences in mandarin and had a reasonable go at learning German.

Uh huh.

Interesting question.

Thinking about it, I assumed an e -pat retained their originally nationality, whilst immigrant adopted the nationality of new country, but now i’m not so sure.

Expats are “migrant workers”. They are not looking to change nationality, but live and work outside their own country.
An immigrant leaves their county to join the new country they live in and become a national of that county.

They are very different things.

Im British living in an other country. Im an immigrant

You're right. I think my view is coloured by the fact that the Netherlands couple had 7 yrs in the country and refused to learn the language at all - even when the breadwinner's company offered to pay for lessons: "Everyone in the office speaks English."

By contrast - referring to what you said about diplomats - I do recall that when I was in the former Soviet Union about 40 yrs ago, the British Cultural Attaché in Moscow had learned the language and had actually sent his child to a local nursery. (The Netherlands pair sent their child to an "International" nursery and school, where everything was in English.)

Oh yes! Who learns the language is always an interesting one @WearyAuldWumman

I am British and I consider myself an economic migrant. My child is definitely considered a migrant in her class and frankly it's quite tough for her.
She is " othered" a lot and her accent even speaking the local language is regularly giggled at .
We came to this country for a better standard of living than one at home and eventually I am sure it will all be ok. We cope. We enjoy what this country has to give us and we get on with it . We are not " expats " .

However! My family live in another country/ region and they were " sent there" due to work . That's an expat.

Lots of immigrants around the world retain their nationality whole life... Based on anedoctal evidence around me, absolute majotity. Many just add the new one.
But many don't even add the one of where they live if they have to lose the original one.

I have few...

Because it’s usually not permanent and they support themselves financially.

I’ve lived in France for 20 years. I would class myself as an immigrant.

Lots of people here, including myself, talk about the “expat community” or the “expat groups”. It’s a shorthand which implies that the people in the group are of British or American origin rather than immigrants who can be from anywhere in the world. I’ve got friends living down south who talk about “the expats pub” - it’s shorthand for referring to Brits, and specifically to Brits who haven’t really integrated into life in France: their French is poor, they do cash in hand jobs / are retired etc.

the real meaning of expat refers to people who have been expatriated from their own country by their employer, whether governmental or commercial.

… having said that I don’t really fit the definition of immigrant given by many in this thread. I’ve never planned to stay in France forever: it’s just one more chapter in my life story. I’m am applying for nationality (thanks Brexit 🙄) but I’ll still be British first and foremost. I’m not an expat as no one sent or paid me to come here.

so I’m not sure which term would apply to me 🤷‍♀️

If we're talking people on intentional short term assignments I don't see how immigrant could ever apply. That's the whole point on both sides. So the question there is, when is someone an expat versus a migrant worker? That's where class and race, or at least national origin, come in. If you're sent to the UAE on a nice professional package from a western company, you are an expat. If you are a nurse or a construction worker from India or the Philippines, you are a migrant worker.

Then the other question is, when do you go from expat to immigrant when living somewhere long term? I know people who have been somewhere for 20 years and call themselves expats. Perhaps it's because they still think their move isn't permanent, but at some point, you're really not any different from the workers who think they'll "go back home" one day when they retire.

If you're sent to the UAE on a nice professional package from a western company, you are an expat. If you are a nurse or a construction worker from India or the Philippines, you are a migrant worker.

Everyone is called expat there. Because everyone is basically temporary. Or resodents if it includes locals (eg in nees articles)

If we're talking people on intentional short term assignments I don't see how immigrant could ever apply.

Well then why are international students who come for even a 1yr master course classified as immigrants?

Immigrant applies to anyone and everyone who moves out of a country to reside in another no matter for how long that is not a tourist.

This includes expats, students, even returning British citizens. All these are counted in the immigration statistics.

Yes @rickyrickygrimes, most of the immigrants I know became or are applying to become dual citizens, they always retain their original citizenship.

Some lucky people have three or four due to heritage so they can live practically anyway!

This is a good point. Expats are one type of immigrant. Or immigrants are one type of expat, since expatriate means outside of one's own country.