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Update on "riots" tonight from local news sites

449 replies

fernsandlilies · 07/08/2024 20:02

Brighton - Less than 10 anti-immigration 'protesters' and about 1,500 counter-protesters with more arriving all the time. Jazz band playing. No violence observed or reported. A couple of buses had to stop for a few minutes to get through the crowd.

Hastings likewise - a handful of anti-immigrationists, and hundreds of counter protesters, chanting "say it loud, say it clear, refugees are welcome here".

OP posts:
Thread gallery
29
GreenPoppy · 08/08/2024 07:06

I believe the list was real, as in put together by the far right. Would they actually have gone to 'protest' in a lot of these locations once they thought about it? Possibly not. Walthamstow kicked the EDL out when they last marched there about 10 years ago, I don't think they would have tried again.

That being said, I love the images. It sends a strong message and is heartening.

Cattyisbatty · 08/08/2024 07:09

StoneofDestiny · 07/08/2024 22:50

Shame that no-one gives a shit about Jews, eh?

Says who?

Because the so-called anti-racist rallies are also anti-Zionist which we all know is a euphemism for anti-Semitism. If you’re not Jewish you just won’t get it but we are hated by the far-right and now the far-left.

Lentilweaver · 08/08/2024 07:14

Really? The anti racist protest in Walthamstow appears to have messages like "Hate not welcome here" and "Stop the far right". Are those anti-semitic? As far as I can see, most rallies have similar signs.

Anti-racism protesters gather in London to show 'unity' - BBC News

Anti-racism protesters in Walthamstow

Anti-racism protesters gather in London to show 'unity'

The Met had been ready to deploy more than 1,300 officers over concerns that unrest was expected.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07env3vr13o

Rachelsthorns · 08/08/2024 07:26

Rosedreaming · 08/08/2024 01:41

I am an Iranian Jew. So I'm brown and Jewish and I have to say it's way scarier to be Jewish in this country right now. I can't hide being brown but I'm afraid to tell people I'm Jewish because the people who I have always supported and trusted - people in left wing, queer spaces, are becoming terrifyingly antisemitic.

As for people defending synagogues - my synagogue was defaced with swastikas a few months ago - I came out of my door to find swastikas drawn all along my street. It didn't even make the news outside the local community and no offers of help were made.

Synagogues and Jewish schools in this country have armed guards because they receive constant death and bomb threats - where are the defenders? The only ones are from the Jewish community.

I'm gay. At the dyke March in Brighton which is meant to be a pride event, banners displaying the Hamas red triangle were shown - a symbol as frightening to me as a swastika. At all pride marches anti-Zionist banners have been displayed - now, to be Zionist only means that you believe the Jews should have a safe self determined homeland. If you believe in a two state solution and want a peaceful safe Israel and a peaceful safe Palestine as I do then you are a Zionist. 95 percent of Jews hold Zionist beliefs, according to all polls I have ever seen, so when you hear people saying they don't hate Jews just Zionists they are actually saying 'I don't hate Jews just 95 percent of Jews'.

My friends have been told to 'go back to Poland' when they have no links to Poland. Incidentally when Jews did try to return to Poland after the war they were met by mobs and slaughtered there. It's one of the factors that lead to the necessary creation of Israel.

My younger family members have been attacked, harassed and spat at in the streets for being visibly Jewish on the way to Jewish schools.

White students in Keffiyeh at student protests have used the Hamas red triangle, spoken about globalising violence against Jews and made death threats.

the Israeli team at the Olympics have recieved multiple death threats. Crowds in an Olympic stadium held up Palestinian flags and chanted heil Hitler at the Israeli athletes.

We are often told Jews are attending the protests - many of these Jews are a sect called the Neturei Karta - they are Jews who believe the Holocaust was punishment for not being good enough Jews and that we must suffer more before we can return to Israel - that's why they are anti Zionist because they think only the purest who have suffered most deserve to live there.

Please also consider the many young Jews who know they will lose friends if they are seen to be in any way supportive of Israel when their friends are yelling about Israel being baby killers. This is why we get tired of hearing that there were 'good Jews' at the protests.

If the Palestinian protests wanted peace they would be protesting both for freedom and self determination for Palestine and for Israel - for an end to war and a return of the hostages and for Hamas to give themselves up.

They wouldn't be calling Israel genocidal and not shouting about Hamas and Iran's openly stated genocidal intentions and wish to destroy Israel and the Jewish people.

They wouldn't be invoking blood libel stereotypes against Israel and not mentioning the children killed on October 7th - two children of a family friend were burned alive among many killed that day. I personally had family at the Nova festival who survived when many of his friends did not - I have been told that claims of murder and rape on October 7th were fake.

They wouldn't be saying Israel was 'killing brown people' as someone has said in this thread because they'd know that 20 percent of the population of Israel (not Palestine just Israel) are non-Jewish Arabs and 50 percent of the population are Mizrahi Jews like me whose families were ethnically cleansed from the wider Middle East - there used to be 2 million Jews living in the Middle East outside Israel, now there are maybe 1000, due to this ethnic cleansing.

They wouldn't be calling Jews who fled europe after quarter of them were murdered for not being white 'white oppressors' either.

They might not rage about there being a Jewish ethnostate which is a tiny country the size of wales with a population the size of Greater London where about a third of the worlds Jews live ( there are still only 16 million Jews in the whole world by the way compared with 2 billion Christian's and more than a billion Muslims ) when Israel is only 76% Jewish but Greece and Romania are 90 percent Christian and just about every Arab state is 90 percent Muslim.

Anyway this got very long but I read this thread and wanted to try to explain why pro-Palestinian flags at an unrelated protest can be upsetting. It's another space that I feel unwelcome in, because I'm frightened of how those people view Jews. Meanwhile I'm frightened of how the rioters view Jews and people of Middle Eastern origin. So where can I feel safe? Nowhere, it seems.

I was very glad to see the counter protests, it does make me feel glad that the racism on the extreme right has been called out in such a way. But I wish antisemitism on the left wasn't being given such a free pass and dismissed when we try to say we are frightened.

Thank you for that careful and detailed explanation. It's appalling that you should feel unsafe here. I hope your post has opened a few eyes.

BlueLimeRun · 08/08/2024 07:33

The ‘what about ‘ posts are very self centred.

Such a lack of awareness to support other people.

Comedycook · 08/08/2024 07:38

NonsuchCastle · 08/08/2024 01:41

What do you think? Anti-semitism is filthy. As is what is happening in Gaza. It's a complex situation.

Would you write?

Islamophobia is filthy...as is (insert something you find objectionable that is happening in a Muslim country). It's a complex issue.

I do hope you wouldn't yet you thought it was appropriate to write what you did about anti semetism....

Zimunya · 08/08/2024 07:48

@Rosedreaming - thank you for your insightful and thought provoking post. I'm so sorry for your experiences, and that you feel so unsafe. I can totally understand why.

Joleyne · 08/08/2024 07:52

ErrolTheDragon · 07/08/2024 23:23

But the list at the weekend which afaik was 'genuine' also contained places where 'protests' pretty clearly would be likely to be matched or outnumbered by counter protesters.
So I think it's more likely miscalculation by people trying to stir up trouble in Britain who don't understand the country.

I think you're right. Whoever curated that list knew nothing about the areas and how proud they are of their multicultural identity.

Lewisham! Reading! Walthamstow! Brighton! 😂
They must have been out of their tiny, racist little minds to even think of trying race riots in those places!

Noras · 08/08/2024 07:56

I noticed from the tv that in many of the anti racist counter protests the Palestinian flag was flying etc. As by implication that seems to threaten Jews in this country isn’t that a problem. The antiracist counter protest should be completely impartial with no position flags. I would feel uncomfortable with that as I don’t feel educated enough to take a position on the conflict between Palestinians and Israel.

My father served in Palestine in 1947/8 and was shot at by all sides. There was barely any Palestinians as such there - the population was scant. I knew many Jewish families when I was young and they were kind to me. My closest friend’s daughter is dating a Palestinian who was adopted into the UK. He is distressed and is she by the ongoing assault. I have tried to read the History about the Balfour agreement etc and before but it’s very perplexing and challenging to say how things can b3 resolved. I am appalled by the numbers of Palestinian massacres v the Israeli numbers ( a Palestinian comedian put the point across - how many Palestinian children are worth one Israeli life ) but again I have no idea how I would feel living in a country where all your neighbours want to push you into the sea. However my view is that no flags should have been flying as it’s made this an us and them situation rather than a full counter protest. By being against the far right are you necessarily against Israel and pro Palestinian? Can you not be neutral as you don’t know enough ? Finally my daughter’s boyfriend is half Indian and they are very much in love and I’m now petrified for both their sakes that they stay safe. I loath everything about this week and despair about mankind.

We all bleed and are all human. What is wrong with us - the human race?

Humdingerydoo · 08/08/2024 08:03

BlueLimeRun · 08/08/2024 07:33

The ‘what about ‘ posts are very self centred.

Such a lack of awareness to support other people.

Did you notice how no one said "what about" until after we felt that there was sufficient support for Muslims, black people, brown people, immigrants etc? So now that everyone seems to agree that the issue of the racist riots is being actively dealt with, we're asking if we can please be included too. It's not a big ask. We just also want to be protected from racist scum moving forward. But apparently that's very selfish of us. How dare we request not to continue to be ignored, for people to actively stand up for racism against us as well 🙄 Like, do people genuinely think right wing extremists aren't also after Jews? 😳

Of course we are supportive of racism finally being dealt with at least to some degree!!

pleasehelpwi3 · 08/08/2024 08:05

Comedycook · 07/08/2024 22:30

Jewish people on the marches....

We've already had that on this thread.

Thanks for reminding us all though

Not everyone has the time to read through six pages.....but my apologies if it was covered already!

ProudToBeBritishToday · 08/08/2024 08:08

Really glad the Geordies came out in force! Reported to be between 3000 - 4000. Some of the placards were amazing. I particularly liked one recommended therapy for the racists using the iceberg model to show what underpins their hate.

I work in Sunderland and we closed up shop early yesterday, I was in tears hearing how colleagues and friends feel fearful.
The hate these protests have exposed hasn’t gone away but hopefully the vast majority of normal people have shown we don’t agree and want everyone to feel safe regardless of race, religion or immigration status.

LakieLady · 08/08/2024 08:10

kiterunning · 07/08/2024 22:33

So proud of the British people tonight!

That's exactly how I feel.

I'm too old and decrepit to have joined in, but I live near Brighton and was watching the updates on the local press website. It was amazing to see so many people demonstrating without any trouble whatsoever, and then to see similar all over the country on the news was very moving.

Humdingerydoo · 08/08/2024 08:11

pleasehelpwi3 · 08/08/2024 08:05

Not everyone has the time to read through six pages.....but my apologies if it was covered already!

The thing is, it's a bit like trying to imply that there isn't a global issue with racism against black people because Kanye West wore a "White Lives Matter" t-shirt.

Having Jewish people on a march doesn't by default make it not anti-semitic. Not every Jew has the same high tolerance of antisemitism as others do. We're individuals. There are loads of different communities within the Jewish community as a whole. We don't all agree with each other on lots of different matters. So having the support of a few Jewish people doesn't mean something isn't anti-Semitic.

Noras · 08/08/2024 08:15

A photo from the march.

Update on "riots"  tonight from local news sites
StoneofDestiny · 08/08/2024 08:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Noras · 08/08/2024 08:17

Lifted from the Guardian

Update on "riots"  tonight from local news sites
Humdingerydoo · 08/08/2024 08:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Actually, I think you'll find that Jewish people often do speak out when someone attacks a mosque or a church. Just because you don't see or hear it doesn't mean it doesn't happen - it means your algorithms don't show it. It's a reflection of your chosen Google searches and the social media accounts you choose to follow.

Not allowing people in favour of a two state solution to attend an "anti-racist" protest in North Finchley is a fucking stupid, hateful and divisive move. Stop pretending otherwise. Anti-Zionism in this instance is anti-Semitism. Not allowing self determination for Jewish people = anti-Semitic just like not allowing self-determination for Palestinians is also based in racism.

Noras · 08/08/2024 08:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Should there not have just been one flag and that’s a ‘no to racism’. That was what the marches were about.

isn’t it simply wrong to hijack one march for another cause? People were on a no to racism march not a pro Palestinian march.

The whole Palestinian thing is another extremely large complex and distressing issue and there might have been people on the march yesterday who probably have not even read the entire history of Palestine and Israel and understood the huge complexities of the situation. They probably don’t even realise that the country was really under a Turkish mandate for donkeys years.

I say this as someone appalled at the ongoing violence in the Middle East but who lacks the faith or intellect to know what can be done and to adjudicate the situation in my own head.

Yesterday was about no to racism.

Canalboat · 08/08/2024 08:29

It’s very cheering indeed to wake up to this. Everyone who went out last night - I’m proud of you, well done.

Spectre8 · 08/08/2024 08:30

1dayatatime · 07/08/2024 23:41

But where did this mysterious list come from? And listing places like Brighton? It all seems a bit odd.

Personally I think that the list was made up by one side or the other for their own purposes

I agree and bordering into conspiracy world I don't believe it was real, it went from 40 placed to 100 withina day, lol that doesn't even seem realistic. So who put out the list and what were their inte tions cos the alternative is that it was done to scare people even more. Nudge behaviour....something the government likes to do

Humdingerydoo · 08/08/2024 08:33

Anyway, thanks to multiple posters for proving the point that Jewish voices are still being constantly ridiculed and minimised and told to stop complaining as others have it visibly worse. Hopefully one day people will realise that we are also worthy of being listened to, that we also matter. That we'd also like to be able to be openly Jewish without fear for our lives.

For Chanukah last year, I didn't dare decorate our front windows. It's our festival of light so would normally be quite fun and bright decorations, similar to Christmas decorations. I instead put them on our garden doors so no one else could see them. So it wouldn't be quite so obvious that we're Jewish. Hopefully one day people will realise just how fucked up that is and start caring about that as well.

Blackcats7 · 08/08/2024 08:33

@Rosedreaming excellent post

pleasehelpwi3 · 08/08/2024 08:33

Humdingerydoo · 08/08/2024 08:11

The thing is, it's a bit like trying to imply that there isn't a global issue with racism against black people because Kanye West wore a "White Lives Matter" t-shirt.

Having Jewish people on a march doesn't by default make it not anti-semitic. Not every Jew has the same high tolerance of antisemitism as others do. We're individuals. There are loads of different communities within the Jewish community as a whole. We don't all agree with each other on lots of different matters. So having the support of a few Jewish people doesn't mean something isn't anti-Semitic.

No sure, I get the point. My grandfather was an orthodox Jew, although that clearly didn't last after marrying a Christian, he remained Jewish. His grandfather emigrated here from Poland at the turn of the century, and of course the relatives who stayed behind were murdered in the War.
Not that you need a Jewish background to have an opinion, but just to demonstrate I'm not being flippant, even if the earlier post did. I have total sympathy for the Iranian Jewish poster and the anti-Semitism she has faced.

I'd explore the point you rightly make about having Jewish people on a march doesn't make it anti-Semitic, and say that having some people with Hamas symbols also doesn't mean a whole march is anti-Semitic. I am surprised that people on MN can claim to know the reason why any particular person, Jewish or not, goes on a march.

It is perfectly acceptable to believe that what the IDF and Israeli government is doing in Gaza (and the West Bank) is criminal, and disproportionate, and support a two-state solution, and not be anti-Semitic in any way. Indeed, as a supporter of Israel, watching the horrors on the news I can't help but think not only is it totally immoral what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza, but long term it's going to perpetuate violence ad infinitum when orphaned children grow up and take revenge for seeing their whole families buried alive under rubble of their homes.....

My grandfather used to send money to support Israel in the early days post WW2, but he stopped after the Six Day War as he became uncomfortable with what the country was doing.

Part of the problem is education- in primary children learn about WW2, but it's just Britain alone/evacuation/Battle of Britain/D-DAy nothing else. I've tried to include a few lessons on the Holocaust and Hitler's rise to power, including using some excellent resources from the Holocaust Education Trust and Y6 children have really found this engrossing and fascinating, but with the obsession in my school and presumably others about sticking to the plan, this isn't always easy. I can't speak for secondary but I wonder- I have talked to pro-Palestinian protesters about anti-Semitism and I struggled to find any nuance. It's either one or the other.

Anyway, this seems a bit rambling, but I don't believe every person waving a Palestinian flag on a march is anti-Semitic. Calling for a two-state solution isn't anti-Semitic, nor is calling for the end of the Gaza occupation. I think if the latter two things were to happen, this would increase the chances of peace in the Middle East, and be of benefit to Israel.