British working/lower class only

[TinklySnail]

I’m personally not okay with rioting but understand why it’s happening.
What is the best way to fix this issue and do you think it is mass immigration that has caused it?

Which immigrants would that be OP. You refer to 'immigrants' not 'illegal immigrants' so presumably you have a problem with ALL immigrants.

I'll put money on you not having a problem with Harley and Sophia from Sydney or Joss and Lauren from Canada. Even though they might just come over to work in pubs. But Sanjay, Zoje or Muhammad bother you. I doubt you'll even bother to check to notice that they are not qualified consultants who will be working for the NHS

@Summerflames

That's an oversimplification though. As many have said, whole industries were closed down/sold off in communities that depended on them. Nothing was put in to replace them. We were told "the city will look after us" by a certain Mrs Thatcher. Except it didn't. We've now become a service industry, we don't produce much any more.
So go into the service industry. What kind of lacking in resilience or sense of responsibility do people have who sit around generation after generation moaning that the industries their grand parents and great grand parents worked in no longer exist?
Industries are literally popping up and disappearing every 5 years now. People will work in multiple jobs/industries over their lifetime.
What is this pathetic lack of any gumption that sees people just fester in some paralysis of action?

I guess when when you see things like this on the government page it breeds amongst the working poor. Working people are struggling with housing, dental care and health care.

This I agree with, but immigration is going unchecked day in and day out. This island is far too small and overpopulated already to house all who sail over.

Says someone who doesn’t understand how deprivation works in such a region affected by loss of major employers.

Go into the service industry” er hello, there are already residents working in the service industry…and what with some workers migrating to different regions and cities due to factories and mines shutting down, there are no extra service industry jobs, in fact the service industry SHRANK in these areas, shops closed, layoffs rippled through all the support industries including the service industry- its a literal domino effect.

The service industry is actually artificially larger than it should be for the local economy still operating in these regions because benefit money is mostly spent on the service industry- keeping few jobs afloat.

Immigration isn’t “unchecked” it is very hard to get a U.K. visa apart from the shortage industries where we desperately need more workers. The number coming is 99.9% in control of the government. We can’t demand they staff the NHS, care homes, farms and factories, lorry drivers and so on to get the country back up and then whinge about the fact immigration is needed to do this.

@Summerflames but your post is basically just what I said.

All of that has nothing to do with immigrants.

They are rioting cs they have rubbish lives. That's how they are free to vandalise things at 2pm on a weekday when others are working and paying taxes.

Strangely many of the kids of immigrants from the same areas you mention go on to become doctors and not a waste of space in society. Funny that...

@CoffeeStars do you mind Australian, Canadian or Ukrainian immigration?

If not why not..? I wonder!

I don’t think people mind Polish, Canadian immigration because the communication is there and the cultural differences are lower. If people don’t have same cultural similarities, particularly if people are wearing different clothes and people are hearing that they are being judged for wearing skimpy clothes then that does breed resentment. Nationalism is rife, language cultural barriers cause devision. The Welsh government need to dial down the nationalism as well.

Do you know how long Labour have been in government? Since you seem to lack in critical thinking let me tell you, it's been a month. The Tories have had the last 13 years - at least the last few of those years to find a solution.

Also, why do you think so many people are immigrants, where do you think they came from and why. Shouldn't all the governments look at that issue (instead of funding war).

Yes, I was in workforce in 2008 and before that. And I described you what I saw.

I also will tel lyou another tale. In 2011 we were looking to build a fence/wall in the garden. We took 10 quotes. We didnt have much money but the work was urgent. the two 'British' companies quoted us £3000 and £3250 for a 1,5m tall 3m long wall, I almost fell over.

The five other companies (Romanina, Bulgarian, Turkish) quoted is £1500-£1800 and in this region. All paid taxtes, it was not a black market job with cash in hand.

The wall didnt have to cost over £3000. For a long time there was no competition and some industries were raking it in. And then puff. Competition turned up and prices lowered, but they were inflated to begin with.

You would assume that if not for the competition, we would have paid the £3000 to an Englishman. I wouldnt have because I had nowhere near the amount of money they expected. So yes, this is why some people lost out, ebcause all of a sudden they could not just request whatever they wanted for stuff that was not worth it.

Read the rest of my post. They often don't know HOW to. They are not particularly well educated. Or well presented. Look at the people you've seen on the news recently. You can see they are somewhat lacking.

Why did these riots not take place when under the Tory Govt then? Theres always flashpoints that could be used by others to start one.

And yet…..4 weeks into to a Labour Govt and now we have this. It’s because they are seen as soft on Law and order (releasing prisoners), targeting the elderly (WFP) and likely to admit thousands to asylum seekers to get rid of a back log while also cancelling the Rwanda scheme.

Even now, there is a perception that there is a two tier system of policing. That coupled with Labours Gov policies already seen above, is what is emboldening these people to riot.

The mistake was Labour thinking they had a landslide. In reality only 20% of the country voted for them. They need to step back and govern more cautiously.

This kind of message really doesn't help. As a country we need to resolve this issue unless we want rioting to become the norm.

Yes, arrest the violent and the hate-filled, but also..

Increase money into schools generally
Re-introduce the schools careers service as a matter of urgency
Reintroduce budgets for adult education and night schools
Bring back Sure Start centres
Invest in proper government-run apprenticeships, stop expecting the private sector to do it.
Improve support for care-leavers.

If people think they have nothing to lose, eventually they will lash out. We have to change that.

well this rather begs the question doesn't it that if things are so bad at home that they have to come here to seek asylum why are they happy to leave their women and children behind to deal.with the shit !What does that tell us about them as men and their attitudes to women and kids ?
Probably not much because let's be completely honest here and admit that most of them are economic migrants and not asylum seekers at all. And this is a big part of the issue in that people are generally happy to.help.and welcome those in genuine need but don't want a free for all that impacts the fabric of their own communities and created an imbalance.

I understand what it's like because I've been in the poverty trap but I got MYSELF out of it. Time to take some personal responsibility.

Exactly. If you want to argue immigration levels is a failure that’s fine, but you need to recognise it’s a structural problem going back decades and will take decades to resolve. That said only policy of the last 20 years which made zero sense to me in the immigration debate context was inviting in half a million + from Hong Kong. Sure, most will integrate fairy well, but they won’t be filling gaps in public services etc. Sure there’s the issue with the mainland, but Hong Kong is ranked by “Resonance” as a better place to live than Liverpool, Manchester, San Diego and Auckland… so it was a bizarre policy. The only thing that makes sense really is that the Tory government of the time expected most arrivals from the city to be voting Tory.

Well the Tory government certainly didn't care. Labour set up Sure Start centres which were swiftly closed by David Cameron's government. Recent research showed that Sure Start had a positive effect. https://ifs.org.uk/publications/short-and-medium-term-impacts-sure-start-educational-outcomes

Yes but I guess my post was aimed more at trying to make people address some of the issues rather than just gloss over them. There are very little actual career prospects in my hometown. The kids of immigrants here don't go on to become doctors, most of the people who train to be doctors here come from overseas and attend the local university. Or attend universities elsewhere. A lot of the teachers in my kids school are from surrounding towns and commute in. Indeed I commute to my job as it's in a different city because opportunities don't exist here.

one of our child's carers is qualifying as a nurse next year. She will have 80 000 in debt on graduation and has been told that this year non of the graduating class will get NHS jobs because there is a spending freeze. The same with qualifying doctors. There was a whole thread on here about it . I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't know her so well.
So there needs to be more long term.planning to train and retain staff otherwise our doctors and nurses are leaving for Australia etc after the expense of training them and in a few more years they will be bringing in more foreign nurses etc because of shortages. Madness.

Working class white poverty is a real thing. It’s also an incredibly ignored thing. Because, apparently, as long as you’re white you’re privileged - even if your circumstances are far worse than ethnic counterparts.

This has all come from successive governments ignoring white working class men in poverty and be seeing to give better treatment to immigrants. If you have ever lived in a very poor white working class area (Hastings) for example, you would see this first hand. It’s not surprising that they have finally snapped - whether rightly or wrongly. It was literally a matter of time. This has been happening in Central Europe for years.

But if you even try to talk about this (the root cause and how to fix it) you’re called a racist.

This isn’t going to improve - and no amount of policing will help - until the Government get a grip on white working class (predominantly male) poverty.

I think this has been a spark to dry tinder.

I don't believe for a moment immigrants are a problem and have no issue with anyone because they are from a different place or religion. But also, I don't live somewhere where these things affect me.

I do believe though that a part of the population feel 'stuck'. High housing costs, increased cost of living and no real rise in wages against these leave been feeling like they have no way to improve their lives. It is all work and no pleasure. Many 20 somethings are trapped at home because despite working full time unless they have significant financial help through something like an inheritance they can't move out. People are getting restless. Those people wanting to cause hate have used social media etc to stir things up and I'm pretty sure not everyone in those mobs really dislikes immigrants but they are fed up with life in general.

And yes, you nailed it. They are rioting cos they have rubbish lives. It's abhorrent and not immigrants faults. But honestly, just telling them to "educate themselves" will not work now or ever.

There was recently a thread on here about child poverty - some huge percentage of children are living in poverty in the UK either that is a lie or if it isn't there's no wonder there are riots in the streets.

The root cause sometimes is that those people are lazy and don't want to take any responsibility of their own lives. I'm sorry, but it's true.

I live in a poor area, been poor myself, everyone I know and spend time with is working class, pretty much all of us have managed to do alright for ourselves because we've been willing to put the work in, starting off with MW jobs or learning trades.

The ones who haven't done well are the ones who can't be arsed and want everyone else to do it for them. I was homeless at one point and I've sorted my shit out.