British working/lower class only

[TinklySnail]

I’m personally not okay with rioting but understand why it’s happening.
What is the best way to fix this issue and do you think it is mass immigration that has caused it?

I don't know how you reach these people, even if we sent every asylum seeker home tomorrow their lives would still be shit, they would still be poor, they still wouldn't have a job!

They're young angry white men, simple as. I doubt the majority ever give immigration a 2nd thought but when a text comes through saying lets smash up a hotel and give the police a bloody nose, bring cans, they're all over it.

I have seen many complain about it and yes, those who have genuinely escaped war/persecution are grateful. Unfortunately we do have those who think the UK is some sort of land of opportunity. We certainly do not have the best welfare state, France’s welfare is far superior to ours.
I don’t think the government is helping though by shutting down anyone concerned about immigration.

BLM riots kicked off over here because black people identified with the oppression and racism that was overtly happening . Let’s learn from this and start listening to those who have very little opportunity to better themselves.
The majority aren’t racist, they lack education and opportunities.

I saw those figures too and was gob smacked. Then I started thinking on it some more and came to the conclusion that it's less to do with volume of numbers coming in (and lets face it, if you look at that figure we look overrun with illegal immigrants) and more to do with the likes of Serco writing blank cheques and getting HM Treasury to sign them off.

@Fallopiantuba you've hit the nail on the head there. I live in one of the ex mining towns that's never recovered, and although no trouble here so far I wouldn't be shocked if we became a target for the rioters.
I'm almost 50 and this town was run down when I was a child, and it's got progressively worse.
In the eighties everyone (correctly) blamed the pit closures and since then there's been a continuous lack of investment - and people are looking for someone to blame for their crap town, crap wages and lack of prospects.
We've had a large polish population due to a nearby employer advertising in Poland for staff, so for a while they were blamed. Then it was muslims (even though there are very few here), now it's Romanians and people in boats.
The sad fact is that many of those who are lashing out aren't very employable. Poorly educated, poorly presented and full of entitlement - they aren't looking to themselves to improve their lives, just looking for people to blame.

Agree with this 100%!

Rwanda genocide is not what this is about and has nothing to do with what is happening currently.
I was surmising why world leaders are not asking Israel to cease occupation on Palestine.

Ironically if more of them actually got themselves trained & in to work we wouldn't need so many immigrants!

But I realise that is a very simplified view!

I think people have no hope of getting a council house, are not getting care for their nan, not getting a GP appointment and the local school barely has any English speaking kids. Their teenage daughter gets leered at by men because she is blonde and isn’t in a full Burkha. They move from the area they grew up in as all the shops sell stuff they don’t want any more and no one speaks the language. They get told they are racist for saying foreigners are taking the local housing, they get told that it’s okay for non English speakers to care for their nan but she has dementia and is deaf so can’t understand a word they say, the GP keeps them on hold forever, and their kid comes home feeling left out because the other kids all keep to their own language. The people in charge ignore the issue of women’s safety and they get told they are racists when an area changes its culture. You may not agree with what I have said but these are all things that have been said to me. When an area has a balanced community it can be truly multicultural but sadly many areas don’t have a balance.

Yep. All of this.

There’s no easy solution and central government don’t care a jot. It doesn’t affect them personally.

Because you will never change this segment of society.

Neither class nor immigration are the cause. The evil is the twinned ignorance and greed.

Yes, there are generations that have been unemployed since the 80’s. Generations of unemployed who feel they can’t make a better life for themselves.
I don’t know why and that is why I’m asking.
I do t think they aren’t looking to improve their lives, I don’t think people how to.

Yes I saw that, really intimidating for her..

Getting training or post-secondary education is expensive and placed beyond people's reach if they have no money. It used to be the case that employers trained people on the job but nowadays employers want people already qualified, sometimes even asking for extensive qualifications for minimum wage jobs. Employers have no incentive to do their bit for society and shoulder the cost of training people when they can just import employees. It seems insane to me that when we are crying out for nurses, for example, there are any financial barriers to becoming one. There was obviously a decision made at some point that it made more financial sense to poach trained nurses from developing countries.

What are "western values"? " Trying to set fire to people in hotels? It's an excuse. Do you address all the men in your tight-knit community who do the same? Because you make it seem as if these "strangers" were gone there would be no crime.

While I think the government has a lot to answer for, these people could try getting off their arses and stop blaming everyone else to be honest. I grew up with a father in prison, I left school with no qualifications, was a single mum at 18 and homeless, on benefits for 4 years but I managed to make myself employable.

Sometimes you need to stop meaning and blaming everyone else for your situation and actually do something about it. It's nobody else's job to save you.

When it cut back to the studio Mark Austin looked very concerned and didn't know what to say, I think he said something like "we'll get security there".

I wish I could argue with you on this, but I can’t.

Education to tackle ignorance would help younger generations but I fear you’re right. So many lost causes.

Again, you are massively oversimplifying things.
I worked in a place a few years ago that offered loafs of jobs all year round. We had people from India, Pakistan, Latvia, Poland, Italy, you name it. Very few British people and the ones that came, would leave because it was hard work at minimum wage.
It taught me a lot about "lack of opportunities".

Are you saying the government should be listening to drunkards who is smashing police with bricks and chants racist slogans?
There are a lot of discussions over immigration and no one is being shut down. But some people will only be satisfied if Keir hands them £3000 a month for nothing and puts all foreigners and people with darker skin on boats. Not sure who will be left working in care homes, hospitals, hotels, schools, airports, supermarkets etc etc.

Last week 3 Asian men battered 3 police, breaking one PW’s nose. It was uploaded onto the internet that the policeman stamped on his head. There was then civil unrest in Manchester.

Then it comes out that the Asian men started it, and battered 3 police. FYI not one of them has been charged with attacking police.

Where in the world would men who assaulted police ever be let off? Only in the UK.

This lit the fuse.

Then 3 young girls were murdered, 8 other DC and 3 other adults attempted murder by a child of immigrants.

This poured fuel on the lit fire.

White working class riots = complete scum, far right

Asian riots, GBH against police = no arrests, no condemnation

Kier Starmer has now been labelled 2 Tier Starmer and this isn’t a joke, it’s something that could bring him down as the shortest ever PM, usurping Liz Truss. He’s not listening to what is going on. But then he has form for not listening. Despite a great many Labour areas voting for Brexit, Kier voted against leaving Europe 48 times. He’s not interested in listening to the people who voted him in, only his own ideology. I’ve trawled the internet and I can’t find any articles on Kier Starmer compiling litigation to stop Brexit, but I distinctly remember it at the time as this was the first time I heard his name and I remember thinking, whys he doing that when most Brexit supporters are Labour voters.

Si here we have;

Race riots
Illegal tax on education which if brought to the ECHR will be shot down
Screwing over pensioners who weren’t the work shy, unproductive lot of today, but often worked 50 years and contributing massively to our society. Shame on them!!!

People are already saying they regret voting for Labour and if they could go back 6 weeks, they wouldn’t.

He really needs to turn this around, and quick, or he’ll be despised by the white WC.

This is exactly the point. When your fellow Brit derides you for being ‘part of the problem’ how can you ever get them to understand what it feels like to be in deprivation and to have little hope of being able to get out of the poverty trap.
I appreciate it’s difficult to come to a strange place when your are fleeing war zones but I think we have forgotten about our own people who are suffering.

it’s not new that asylum seekers are mostly young men. This has always been the case as they are the most likely to make the journey. There have been large numbers of young male asylum seekers in the cities for years, but you’re seeing them in more places now because of the numbers and the backlog.

I used to teach groups of young male asylum seekers and refugees and you’re right they were often difficult, sometimes they behaved inappropriately towards females. Sometimes it takes them months to get to the UK and they don’t know how to behave when they get here. But they can learn. If they get permission to stay, they can find housing and work and they have to learn English because this is mandatory to getting permanent status. So over time many will adapt and integrate well. Minimising the time spent in hotel stays will support this, as will returning those with no legitimate claim. I think we have to stay positive about the potential for people to integrate and coexist peacefully. What is the alternative?

Are you resident in a deprived area?
I don’t know anyone who is getting 3k in benefits.
This has nothing to do with skin colour.

@Fallopiantuba

Mass immigration has not caused this. It’s much more complex.

The closure of the pits and heavy industries had a massive impact on the tight communities tied to those industries. In a generation or two they were completely gone. This has left a vacuum in some northern towns that has been filled by drugs and disillusionment. Many people there have nothing to look forward to after school. What they need (and we all need) is a good education system, an established industry to support secure jobs, and the promise of a future. Successive governments have let them down at every turn. Historically they are not right wing communities - they’re proud, law-abiding people from the old Labour heartlands left with nothing to do but cast around looking for blame, fuelled by lies from millionaires and a right-wing media. It’s tragic all round and important to point out the troublemakers and those with abhorrent views are still in the minority"

This is an excellent post. Thinking about solutions today I agree that the loss of industrial and manufacturing industries has hit these communities hard and removed large numbers of jobs that were traditionally held by white working class males. Combined with poor education outcomes for white working class males means that there is a lack of hope or ambition for the future.

Through into the mix funding and programs for BAME communities but nothing for white working communities and positive discrimination (which when you are poor and white looks like plain old discrimination) you have a tinderbox of resentment about to explode.

Do t get me wrong many of these communities don't help themselves through benefits sometimes paying better than work, high alcohol and drug addiction, not seeing the importance of education as a means out of poverty. And an overall lack of agency that their dire situation is the fault of either the government or someone else and not them.

Thank you. And spot-on.