I’m already fed up of Starmer as PM

[Wasntmeanttobelikethis]

Semi- lighthearted, I know it’s early days, but I’m not convinced of Starmer as an effective leader
He reads from his notes even when giving a short speech; if he really believed in what he is saying, why the need?
He doesn’t seem to have the leadership X factor and doesn’t seem to have a grip on the ongoing riots
Bright new start for UK? Doesn’t feel like it

In fairness, who is really winning at present? I say that as a lifelong Labour supporter btw.

Society is fragmented, rioting has become normalised, there is little distinction between far left and far right with both sides hating on someone, the working classes are increasingly marginalised, being buffeted along and blamed for all the ills, hate speech is rife ( look at the language on mn alone where name calling/ personal attacks/ outlandish accusations are made freely and liberally), freedom of speech is meaningless when it is determined that only the ' right'type of person is allowed a say. Classism has reached new peaks.

Honestly, I can't see why anyone can get excited by " us " winning the election.

Well they do, because if an illegal migrant comes here and pretends to be an asylum seeker then when they're found out to be lying and are no longer allowed to stay get deported we've still paid for however many months they have been here.

Logic worthy of a drunk contortionist.

From the moment someone gets here to the moment their case is deemed not valid, they are not illegal and we owe them a duty of care. That is how international law works.

The fact that the majority of claims from people coming over on small boats are accepted (the rate is over 70%) should tell you, if you are a rational human being, that most people are not lying.

What needs to happen is for the whole process to be properly funded, staffed and streamlined so that people don't wait for long - this would save money, stress and time.

I'd rather deport the rioters. Unfortunately that isn't possible.

With you on that 💯

Agree with this 💯

Because without winning the election they don't have a chance to make thing better

It's the start

But it will not be quick or easy and it will never please everyone

I doubt we’d disagree about this subject very much. Though we might not agree for the same reasons. Personally, I think the numbers of asylum seekers here is perfectly manageable and we need young people in the country. I am dubious about the extent of true asylum claims, but I can see plenty of reasons to accept applicants even so.

The arguments about validity of applicants are, though, very, very dodgy.

France accepts 27% of its asylum applicants:

https://asylumineurope.org/reports/country/france/statistics/

Unless you think France is some brutal and dishonourable state, the discrepancies obviously suggest a difference in willingness to reject, not in the truth of asylum claims.

I’m proud that Britain has a good historical record of accepting migrants. I hope we continue to do so.

But nobody benefits from false arguments.

But it's not just about the new government ' making things better'. It's about all of us, individually and collectively, taking on some responsibility for our own actions.

Most of what is needed to make peoples lives better isn't in their gift

Better health , better education, a fairer society doesn't happen without a society to create it

And when people lose hope as has happened I feel, when people are barely getting by and have no energy left at the end of each day, then they can't make good choices - that's basic biology

The people who are currently rioting don't want equality, though. These are more than likely to be the same people to scream when someone in their street is getting more benefits than they are. They'll be the same people who come on here saying 'should I report so and so', and then make up a whole host of assumptions about that person. They'll be the same people, in short, who aren't happy until there's someone worse off than they are.

Instead of doing their best at school, working their way up, learning new skills, they choose to blame others for their situation. Yes, we need to work towards a less unequal Britain - but how do we make people see that equality is for everyone?

Well don't take my facts for it. Instead The Independent shows SKS' approval rating down 15 points in a week, Reeves also down similar amount. But then I expect you don't believe them either. Wake up and smell the coffee... one month in and he is a failure.

Starmer’s approval rating drops after a week of riots and confusion over holiday plans | The Independent

@Zebedee999 I find your take on it weird tbh. He’s a failure after a measly 4 weeks yet the tories have had 14 years of abysmal proven failure and people are still pissed that the Tories lost and are hoping beyond hope that the country turns to even more shit ? Just shows how sectarian the country has become. If your side doesn’t win, you just will the other side to fail even though there’s not much else the new government could do differently. I think that says a lot about you.

If they vote, which I doubt, they’ll have mainly voted Reform or something of that ilk.

If you apply for asylum then you have not come to that country as an illegal migrant, you have done something that is perfectly legal and absolutely anyone is entitled to do.
At the point when their application for asylum is turned down, they become an illegal migrant.
Alternatively illegal migrants might be visa overstayers (the majority are).

You have if you know that you're not an asylum seeker or refugee but an economic migrant and are entering that country by illegal means.

Very many economic migrants enter countries perfectly legally, our last Prime Minister is an example of this.

Asylum seekers become refugees (in law) when they are granted that status after they have applied for asylum.

Everyone has an absolute right to apply for asylum in any country (that has signed up like the UK to the convention) how, or why you came to that country does not change that right. Until the point their case is decided they remain an asylum seeker and legally in the country.

The high % of successful applications suggest that this argument on your part lacks substance (being polite here).

Why were illegal immigration costs discussed in Parliament in May of this year then?

@pointythings said much including - "The fact that the majority of claims from people coming over on small boats are accepted (the rate is over 70%) should tell you, if you are a rational human being, that most people are not lying".
I suggest it might indicate that the standard required is too low.
It might also mean that there is a political impetus not too enquire very hard and wave them through.
I think the law should be changed so that we have a law that WE want not what some World Council decrees for us.
That Supra National body does not have to contribute to the costs of these people. You and I have to pay for them.

Agreed. And this 'settlement' (which incidentally was only slightly higher than the previous Govt had offered) is storing up many problems for the future.

Presumably a month ago when we had a General Election you ran on a manifesto that included this as one of its key policies. How did you get on?

Which Supra National body do you mean?

Have you not heard of it?

The cause are fighting against it.

I'm watching bits of this play out from a holiday abroad and I cannot believe people are saying Starmer should be saying he understands people's concerns blah blah. These look like violent thugs looking for an excuse for a brawl and to steal in the ensuing mayhem. The pictures of the burnt out library for example are heartbreaking, though they've apparently already received thousands in donations to rebuild, or start to. What an insult to 'ordinary people' to say they'd support this behaviour. I would be livid if Starmer was appeasing these people. I doubt very much that many of them are listening to what he says anyway. They're just waiting for the next instruction/trigger from their social media outlets and the people orchestrating that also don't care what Starmer says - they've just used those horrendous murders last week as an excuse to unleash all this shit.

I think he's doing a good job and making it clear that this is criminal behaviour that is in no way justifiable. The solutions in the long term are going to be complex and we won't know how successful Labour will be at implementing them for years to come. Bringing immigration down will do fuck all to change these people's lives though and it certainly won't change the aims of those in control, like Farage etc. Just like Brexit didn't shut him up, there'll always be another target/focus point for the bile he spews.

So stricter controls on social media and incitement alongside education/investment so that fewer people are susceptible to it. Certainly not quick fixes that can be sorted in a few weeks. I think Starmer and his team will make progress though and will have the right approach- so far the signs have been good.

What about the scenes in Birmingham last night? If Starmer doesn’t come out and condemn them, condemn the people involved and have a number of the perpetrators remanded in custody within 24 hours then all the claims that 2 tier politics and policing are inaccurate will be totallly discredited.