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Why are majority of the riots in northern towns?

1000 replies

PhoebeMcPeePee · 04/08/2024 12:13

DH & I were watching the riots on the news this morning like most people absolutely horrified.

He's from one of the northern towns affected although we live in the south and started discussing why these riots now (and historically) tend to be more focused on northern towns but didn't really come up with any one thing. Any thoughts on this?

OP posts:
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12
Livelovebehappy · 04/08/2024 17:50

taxguru · 04/08/2024 17:38

Not all Northern towns/cities are the same.

Many posters have mentioned Leeds, which is a good city because of it's highly regarded Uni, and several big financial services employers.

Compare that with Bradford, just a few miles away, which is an absolute hell hole.

Manchester and Leeds benefit enormously from their Unis and financial services employers. Nearby towns cities without respected Unis and without big "high value" employers are very, very different. The seaside resorts like Southport, Blackpool, Morecambe, etc have really suffered with immigrants, unemployed and newly released prisoners being "bussed in" over 2/3 decades now, and it shows!

I live in Bradford, and I agree - absolute hell hole. It’s like another country within a country. Lawless because the police do nothing to stem the crime and antisocial behaviour, because they’re fearful of escalation by the masses. And our local MPs just don’t care enough to be bothered about what’s happening in their constituencies. There’s quite a lot of tension here most days. Fortunately my home is for sale and I’m moving out of the area. There’s so many beautiful towns and villages outside the boundaries of where we live - just sorry to leave our very lovely elderly neighbours who have lived here for 50 years, and have been subjected to a lot over the last couple of years.

WhimsicalGubbins76 · 04/08/2024 17:50

The incorrect information being spouted on here is astounding. Most asylum seekers are around the south, specifically London and surrounding areas. So that theory is out. The highest percentage of Muslims live in and around London also, so that’s out. Most racist attacks and abuse happen south of the Watford gap, so that theory is also out. It is not 1978 and the north isn’t full of mines and steelworks anymore, so the ‘poverty’ theory is also out. And most riots actually happen in big cities-such as London-which has seen more than its fair share of violent looting and rioting.
The simple answer why the current riots are in the North this time, is because the murders happened in a North West town-and some idiot on social media started bleating on about the murderer having arrived illegally on a boat and travelled north-when the truth is that the kid was born and raised in Cardiff. He has Rwandan heritage, but he is British. He’s a home grown murderer-and if he’s radicalised then he was radicalised on British soil

PuttingouthefirewithGasoline · 04/08/2024 17:51

I wonder if the know who started the disinformation and whether they can prosecute.

x2boys · 04/08/2024 17:52

WhimsicalGubbins76 · 04/08/2024 17:50

The incorrect information being spouted on here is astounding. Most asylum seekers are around the south, specifically London and surrounding areas. So that theory is out. The highest percentage of Muslims live in and around London also, so that’s out. Most racist attacks and abuse happen south of the Watford gap, so that theory is also out. It is not 1978 and the north isn’t full of mines and steelworks anymore, so the ‘poverty’ theory is also out. And most riots actually happen in big cities-such as London-which has seen more than its fair share of violent looting and rioting.
The simple answer why the current riots are in the North this time, is because the murders happened in a North West town-and some idiot on social media started bleating on about the murderer having arrived illegally on a boat and travelled north-when the truth is that the kid was born and raised in Cardiff. He has Rwandan heritage, but he is British. He’s a home grown murderer-and if he’s radicalised then he was radicalised on British soil

Well exactly ,there are ignorant dick heads all over the UK.

AvrielFinch · 04/08/2024 17:53

Hayliebells · 04/08/2024 17:43

I agree with this, and as wealth rubs shoulders with poverty, despite the existence of that sometimes very extreme poverty, the environment is just more pleasant. I'm from the north but now live in a London suburb, and when I go home the poverty and dereliction is so noticeable. It's very depressing, it's not nice just walking around those areas as it's all so run down. People living in poverty where I live in London at least have nice parks they can visit. There are libraries and free cultural events. There are plenty of jobs in the service industry, albeit at minimum wage, but I imagine even a minimum wage job is better than no job for one's self esteem and community cohesion. I don't think people in the SE realise what the day to day reality of lots of people in the UK is. Poverty is not experienced in the same way everywhere. For lots in the north, reality is much grimmer than in the affluent SE.

I totally agree with this. Where I live now looks so run down. Potholes, falling apart street scapes, boarded up shops. It looks grim. And there is virtually nothing free or cheap these days. The cinema, paid sports, gyms and a theatre, but they all rely on money. The parks are small and very busy in decent weather, but they have a small playground and some grass on them. They are probably as large as quite a few MNers back gardens and loads of people use them. The libraries have been closed or are closing down, and the ones remaining have very limited opening hours. Many youth centres have been closed, with only a few remaining, and they are now closing the community centres.
I get irritated on here when people say they do not have much money and the suggestions are to use the free facilities that so many places do not have any more.
When you literally have nothing you can send your kids to, a club aimed at local asian kids sparks resentment. It is not right, but it is about people being resentful because they have so little and life is bloody hard.

MyHonestRoseSeal · 04/08/2024 17:54

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Previously banned poster.

Devonbabs · 04/08/2024 17:54

A lot of these towns have high levels of immigrants and there are many cultures living together in quite cramped conditions.

Multiculturalism really doesn’t work. Many of those rioting are ostracised are they are repeatedly told they are privileged and feel they are at the bottom of the pile for any help.

If all of this is to be solved, people who have no experience of the issues being faced need to get off their high horse, listen to the very valid concerns of those rioting and address them.

Leniriefenstahl · 04/08/2024 17:54

x2boys · 04/08/2024 17:52

Well exactly ,there are ignorant dick heads all over the UK.

Lol, come up here and see for yourself. That was directed at@WhimsicalGubbins76 let’s just bet that you won’t want to move to some of those places involved in the riots.

Livelovebehappy · 04/08/2024 17:55

Goldenbear · 04/08/2024 17:47

Hardly, I literally said I grew up in challenging part of West London (Think People Just Do Nothing comedy) and South London and my parents one parent is from the Midlands and moved back there so I absolutely do no life outside of the south east. Lots of DH family extended family in the North East and I went to uni in the North so yes, very much have experience of the North. It is just illogical to compare the diversity of London food to any other places including in the south east! people are asking about integration and I think in London now the eating out choices are a sign of that. London pre 2000 was not integrated at all in many parts and people are kidding themselves if they think the whole of the south east is integrated it isn’t at all but they aren’t going to riots.

They might not be going to the riots currently going on, but they’ve certainly had their fair share of riots in the past. And on a far worse level than the ones we are experiencing now. London has a lot of low level crime going on, as well as knife crime. I wish people wouldn’t paint London as some sort of Utopia. It really isn’t.

TinklySnail · 04/08/2024 17:57

OhMaria2 · 04/08/2024 17:46

No it isn't

Isn’t it?
TR was the one ‘influential’ person, via SM, that said the Southport perpetrator was a Muslim.
Had he not posted this misinformation I doubt the protests would have happened.
What, in your opinion, is the cause of the protests if you don’t believe it to be misinformation spouted on SM?

FolkestoneMassive · 04/08/2024 17:58

WhimsicalGubbins76 · 04/08/2024 17:50

The incorrect information being spouted on here is astounding. Most asylum seekers are around the south, specifically London and surrounding areas. So that theory is out. The highest percentage of Muslims live in and around London also, so that’s out. Most racist attacks and abuse happen south of the Watford gap, so that theory is also out. It is not 1978 and the north isn’t full of mines and steelworks anymore, so the ‘poverty’ theory is also out. And most riots actually happen in big cities-such as London-which has seen more than its fair share of violent looting and rioting.
The simple answer why the current riots are in the North this time, is because the murders happened in a North West town-and some idiot on social media started bleating on about the murderer having arrived illegally on a boat and travelled north-when the truth is that the kid was born and raised in Cardiff. He has Rwandan heritage, but he is British. He’s a home grown murderer-and if he’s radicalised then he was radicalised on British soil

This is wrong. If you search online you’ll find a big list of towns and names of hotels where the entire hotels are taken over to house asylum seekers/illegal immigrants, at huge expense t the public purse. They are not in Epsom, Beaconsfield or Islington. They are in places already suffering deprivation.

Windymoore · 04/08/2024 17:58

CurbsideProphet · 04/08/2024 12:43

Deliberately goady reply.

That reply is part of the problem to the context: no conversations,just abuse.

matildamiracle · 04/08/2024 17:58

PuttingouthefirewithGasoline · 04/08/2024 17:51

I wonder if the know who started the disinformation and whether they can prosecute.

But the riots are continuining with the 'correct information'

The murders have become symbolic , using a rather stupid logic that if the pyscho who killed the children, parents had never immigrated here over 20 years ago, it would never have happened. SO it becomes about immigrants in general not being wanted here.

The boy who did this , like the young black boy stabbed with a sword by a white man in London, is 'probably' more about extreme mental health problems than anything to do with race.

PuttingouthefirewithGasoline · 04/08/2024 17:59

Wasn't there a report a while ago to say White young men are the most disadvantaged of the lot?

Years ago?

AvrielFinch · 04/08/2024 18:00

x2boys · 04/08/2024 17:47

£26.70 is significantly less than universal credit for a 3rd child.

Its for each child. So a family in Scotland with 3 children will get £80 more than a family in England.

Livelovebehappy · 04/08/2024 18:00

AvrielFinch · 04/08/2024 17:53

I totally agree with this. Where I live now looks so run down. Potholes, falling apart street scapes, boarded up shops. It looks grim. And there is virtually nothing free or cheap these days. The cinema, paid sports, gyms and a theatre, but they all rely on money. The parks are small and very busy in decent weather, but they have a small playground and some grass on them. They are probably as large as quite a few MNers back gardens and loads of people use them. The libraries have been closed or are closing down, and the ones remaining have very limited opening hours. Many youth centres have been closed, with only a few remaining, and they are now closing the community centres.
I get irritated on here when people say they do not have much money and the suggestions are to use the free facilities that so many places do not have any more.
When you literally have nothing you can send your kids to, a club aimed at local asian kids sparks resentment. It is not right, but it is about people being resentful because they have so little and life is bloody hard.

There are some lovely areas in the North - Lake District National park, Yorkshire Dales, Peak District. We have beautiful York and Haworth, lovely smaller villages and lots of history. Some beautiful very large parks - Yorkshire sculpture park and many others. I spent many days out with my younger DCs in these areas.

TinklySnail · 04/08/2024 18:01

PuttingouthefirewithGasoline · 04/08/2024 17:59

Wasn't there a report a while ago to say White young men are the most disadvantaged of the lot?

Years ago?

Still a current issue.
Only around a third of white working class boys pass their maths and English GCSEs, disadvantaged white working class boys are 40 per cent less likely to go into higher education than disadvantaged black boys.

Devonshiregal · 04/08/2024 18:02

RedToothBrush · 04/08/2024 12:19

Poverty and areas being particularly deprived of opportunity and investment.

It's particularly true of former mining and fishing communities where the main employment opportunities have been completely destroyed.

It's men without any prospects and multiple governments have never addressed what this has bred - criminality. Racist politicians have exploited this too.

This is really…erm…prejudiced? You think the north is full of unemployed men who have become criminals due to poverty. Have you ever been to the north?

drspouse · 04/08/2024 18:02

I'm in the NW and we are used to having a multicultural society thanks.
We are however quite close to Southport, clearly a lot closer than Brighton.
We are not a bunch of knuckle dragging racists who have never seen a Black person nor are we Little Afghanistan.
In my city there was a heavily policed racist protest and an equal sized anti racist group.

riotdiscussion · 04/08/2024 18:02

@WhimsicalGubbins76

You are not correct re asylum seeker dispersal in the UK. Poster upthread included stats from the Uni of Oxford.

Why are majority of the riots in northern towns?
askmenow · 04/08/2024 18:02

Mousefoot · 04/08/2024 12:48

Places with a working class poor, where whole towns were originally built up around industries that no longer exisit, towns with large immigrant populations which often haven't integrated and places where the grooming gangs operate (not entirely related, but all contributes to the feeling of unease)

A feeling of unease and unfairness. The British laud fairness above all. And they want it visible!

Unfair policing for fear of being called racist, as evidenced by the grooming gangs scenarios.

People in authority kept quiet, both the Government, Police, Councils.... "because it was all too difficult " They knew who the perpetrators were but allowed our children to be raped and abused by a specific demographic.

"Two tier Kier" has stoked this division with his off the cuff remarks about addressing far right "Thugs" in largely northern towns. They are not all far right, they are questioning, considered people who fear for this country's future and see unfairness.

What about the liberal Thugs desecrating our statues? What about the Jewish residents in London fearful of crossing the streets due to threats by Pro Palestinian thugs.
The London Bubble knows nothing!

In the towns and villages of the North, migrants gravitate to enclaves and are "apart", endeavoring to live by their own rules, in their separate neighbourhoods, carrying on with the practices of their homelands over here in the UK.
I saw potential "otherness" even in the 1980's in areas of Birmingham. Already living lives apart, women living in back rooms, unable to speak a word of English. Ethnic shops overflowing onto pavements , whereas Britsh white shopkeepers would have the local Council on their backs for obstructing safe passage. And it goes on....

Working class white boys recognised as now being the most underachieving demographic and having little hope of better futures.
Seeing illegal migrants preferentially being housed at the expense of our indigent young people breeds resentment.

Lack of hope makes work for idle hands. We need to reopen youth centres, boxing clubs and promote youth wellbeing across all ethnicities. Bring our youth together and maybe there will be hope.
Good male role models need to step up and help.

x2boys · 04/08/2024 18:03

AvrielFinch · 04/08/2024 18:00

Its for each child. So a family in Scotland with 3 children will get £80 more than a family in England.

Ah right .

Hayliebells · 04/08/2024 18:04

Livelovebehappy · 04/08/2024 18:00

There are some lovely areas in the North - Lake District National park, Yorkshire Dales, Peak District. We have beautiful York and Haworth, lovely smaller villages and lots of history. Some beautiful very large parks - Yorkshire sculpture park and many others. I spent many days out with my younger DCs in these areas.

Well obviously there are lovely places in the North. But not everyone can experience them because not everyone has the means to travel to them. Try walking around a suburb of Bradford and you'd have to agree it's a world away from the Yorkshire Dales. The locals probably can't afford the bus fare.

AdviceNeeded2024 · 04/08/2024 18:04

TinklySnail · 04/08/2024 17:57

Isn’t it?
TR was the one ‘influential’ person, via SM, that said the Southport perpetrator was a Muslim.
Had he not posted this misinformation I doubt the protests would have happened.
What, in your opinion, is the cause of the protests if you don’t believe it to be misinformation spouted on SM?

I think there were more than TR posting this and I agree it was almost like the match to the tinder box.

It seems this has been simmering and coming for a while and a culmination of recent violent incidents in a close time frame including the soldier being stabbed in Kent, police officers being attacked in Manchester then the police officers actions involved in the incident, then the Southport stabbings, all along with the ongoing COL crisis, the last government seemingly only looking after their rich mates and the way the media portray everything which is usually skewed one way or another, I think it was going to happen soon if it hadn’t now.

Algorithms and Social Media are also heavily to blame here I think. I also think the media need to look at themselves too for some of their part in this resentment building.

AvrielFinch · 04/08/2024 18:05

Livelovebehappy · 04/08/2024 18:00

There are some lovely areas in the North - Lake District National park, Yorkshire Dales, Peak District. We have beautiful York and Haworth, lovely smaller villages and lots of history. Some beautiful very large parks - Yorkshire sculpture park and many others. I spent many days out with my younger DCs in these areas.

Oh I know! They are extremely expensive to live in. No way could I afford to live in those areas. Also not cheap to travel to for a day out. I think you are in a very different economic group to myself.

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