Southport - why do they keep saying a ‘Taylor Swift themed club’?

[SandrasNewDo]

It’s really bothering me.

Is it because
a) the murder of 2 children and attempted murder and severe injury of 9 others isn’t newsworthy enough without involving Taylor Swift’s name?

b) Taylor Swift needs to suffer some guilt by association in the way Ariana Grande did with the bombing at her concert?

What’s the need or relevance? If it had been a 80’s music dance class would they keep saying that? Why not just say summer dance club and then focus on the children and adults who were hurt or killed - I can’t even imagine the devastation their families and the whole community must be suffering.

Anyone?

All these posters going on about brain development needs to give their head a wobble.

Oh, could not agree more with you. Especially the posters saying that the brain isn't mature until the mid (or even, not late!!!) 20s.

This is a common trope on mumsnet and it's absolute bollocks. Any neurologist will tell you that the brain is highly plastic and changes throughout ones life based on one's external environmental needs at the time (see the famous research on taxi drivers, ballerinas and anorexics).

It's possible that one's neurological powers of memory, mimesis and perception peak at about 25 - 27, after which they start to decline. But that has nothing to do with frontal lobe activity around what we might grandly term ethics, morality and the understanding of social norms.

The obsession with brain 'maturity' (a MEANINGLESS concept) is part of the modern trend to infantilise people until they are at a later and later age. Hence why we have so many young adults suffering from anxiety disorders. They're constantly getting told they can't do anything.

17 is old enough to know societal norms and models. Plus he'll be 18 in a matter of weeks.

That's in an ideal world.

I imagine a lot of us would have been on our knees with thanks if a lone policeman had entered Monday's dance class and got the intruder to the ground and if he had kicked him on the head while he was down, most wouldn't have shed a tear.

Yes, some will say the police should be robots and stay calm all the time but if faced with a terrible scene or watching your colleagues being thrown to the floor, watching a female officer get a broken noise, be fearful that some out of control man will grab a gun-then maybe, just maybe, we should show a little understanding that when said man dropped to the floor, the officer gave him a kick. to make sure he stayed down,

What if he had got back up and , in his out of control behaviour, grabbed a gun or killed a bystander-maybe a child.

It seems to be that violent men can act with gay abandon while some want the officer to speak gently to them and have their helmet on properly when they arrest them. Dangerous men need controlling.

However, I do know-for a fact-that if the man who killed those children on Monday had been given a kick in the head by a police officer, there would be plenty on here who would be wailing about it. Just as there will be those who will come along to pour scorn on this post.

I think it's time for the police to stop dancing in Pride Festivals and be a Police Force again and, if they give a kick up the arse to some men who will not submit to arrest, who are a danger, then I for one will just be glad that they brought the situation under control.

Resist arrest and take the consequences.

@FarmFlowers Well said

@FarmFlowers - great post.

Can hardly bear to read these threads - it’s like bingo. I even saw that this was the fault of the Tories. We’ve had that the person is only a “suspect”, he’s a “boy”, the old “mental health” one and, inevitably, it’s a tragedy for him as well as the victims and their families.

And posters salivating over the awful rioting in Southport - glad to have a “look at them” to distract from the fact that a piece of s**t has knifed children.

Well said @FarmFlowers

The brain isn't fully developed at 18 either - the average age is 26. Brain development isn't the reason for being classed as an adult being set to 18.

Note - I don't think we should raise the age of an adult to 26, was just comenting on the biology of it

I do think Taylor Swift is exactly the type of woman - hugely successful, hugely inspiring to young girls - that certain types of men hate. The men who see girls and women as nothing more than objects for men to control and use and who cannot stand seeing women with autonomy who are encouraging girls and other women to succeed and have control over their own lives. Who knows if that was a motivating factor but the police would be negligent if they're not investigating misogyny and specifically hatred of Taylor Swift as a potential motivating factor. I also think accurate reporting should be encouraged and there's nothing to be lost, and potentially something to be gained, by being specific about the workshop.

Horrific crime, I just see evil rising in this and other such incidents. It's just so very very evil. My heart goes out to the families of the children who were killed and injured.

Not disagreeing that the biology is correct though. At the age of 18 you are legally considered an adult - it was only lowered from 21 in the early 1970’s. At 17 he could still be at school, so not an adult but not really a child either. But my point is that you can’t chop and change the law to suit the crime. If at 17 he’s legally entitled to anonymity then he should have it, otherwise what’s the point. You either lower it for everyone or scrap it altogether.

This. Well said.

The rioting in Southport was sparked by misinformation about the identity of the suspect. It started as a mob outside the mosque. The misinformation was spread online on social media, despite the police asking people not to speculate, because this is what they feared it would lead to.

I’ve not read the whole thread, but from what l’ve seen, l can’t see anyone defending what he did, or ‘salivating’ as you put it, over the rioting. The plain fact is that legally he’s still a boy which is why the authorities are referring to him as such. And he is actually a suspect. That will remain a fact until he is charged. So that’s the terminology used here. It’s absolutely not an indication of support for him, or an attempt to excuse the terrible thing he did.

And MN threads have contributed to the speculation and misinformation - a number of threads have been taken down, and with the constant references to race and speculation about his name, l’m surprised this one is still going to be honest. I live quite close to where these events took place and l can tell you that what is bandied about on these threads has consequences for real people, including the families of the victims. As we saw last night when the mother of one of the dead girls was appealling for calm.

Could not agree more! I believe the airport incident was resistance against a woman getting search as it was against their religion.. Like wtf, it's not one rule for thee another for me!
How would UK citizens in many other countries be treated if they acted in a similar way?!
Let's say how would my catholic beliefs be respected?

You can condemn police brutality as well as condemning the actions of the people arrested.

Yes, this is the big problem.

Completly agree with you @Rosscameasdoody - the law has to apply no matter peoples personal opinions, otherwise there is no point in having it. |it can't be chosen to not apply in certain horrific crimes and not others

Yes, that is true.

However, I think maybe we should re-visit the definition of "police brutality"

I don't think it is police brutality to take any measures possible to bring a dangerous man who is resisting arrest under control. Many of these men are out of control, dangerous crazed man and they won't respond to reason.

I think if you resist arrest, then tough shit. If a man is allowed to resist arrest and isn't brought under control by whatever means necessary than someone else will end up paying the price as he goes on his demented way.

So, the bottom line is resist arrest and take what's coming. It's a practical approach and everyone can decide for themselves if they will be allow themselves to be arrested and come to no physical harm or resist and take your chances and if that means they take action to make sure you stay down, then that's what it means.

Too many shits are given about violent out of control men.

So, yes, I think we need to re-define what police brutality is and to my mind, it is not using any means necessary to get an out of control man, resisting arrest, on the floor and making sure he stays there. That's reasonable force-any force that keeps them on the ground and stops them being a danger to others.

Someone up thread said she was a teacher and that it didn't matter what had gone on before when referring to the airport case . She wrote that it didn't matter if a pupil had told her to fuck off many times, it would not justify her telling the pupil to fuck off once in retaliation.

This attitude is what leads thugs and criminals to correctly believe that they can act with impunity and no one in authority can say 'this far and no further.'

I believe if someone behaves badly then they wipe away their right to be treated well. Actions have consequences and if pupils started to learn this in school then we would have a better society.

You don't need to be a genius to work out that those who don't work for the good of society soon figure out that there are no consequences for them-that thy can knock as many police men to the ground as they want, tell as many teachers to fuck off as they want and no-one will dare to give them a lesson they won't forget.

A little more of a hard line, for those who have no respect for society will not make them respect authority but it will make them fear it and that is all to the good for the rest of us,

Naturally, those who wring their hands about the rights of violent men will be along to say differently and insult me, maybe even quoting some dubious sources.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687565/Children-radicalised-mosques-11-knives-crime-verdict-German-child-refugee-charity-integration-failed-asylum-seekers.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=social-twitter_mailonline

Daily mail article today regarding integration in Germany.

I don’t think it’s the case that the rioting was sparked by misinformation about the identity of the perpetrator. There was a man in a balaclava with a knife at the vigil - that’s what precipitated the violence.

I saw that on numerous social media sites. What the actual fuck? Did the media report on it or is it another cover up?

Rubbish. The EDL were already there for a ruck. Most of them were from outside the area. Why did they start throwing bricks at police, attack a mosque and ransack a shop because a man with a knife got arrested?

• 50 police officers were injured during violent protests following a vigil for the victims of Monday’s knife attack at a Taylor Swift-themed holiday club, Merseyside Police Federation said.
• Local residents said rioters attacked a mosque and used bricks as missiles last night. Many helped with the clean-up operation this morning to repair the damage caused by the disorder.
• Southport’s MP, Patrick Hurley, said the violent rioters were not local to the area and must face the “full force of the law”. He said the riots occurred because of the “propaganda and lies” spread on social media about the identity of the attacker. “These people are utterly disrespecting the families of the dead and injured children and utterly disrespecting the town,” the MP told the BBC.
• Merseyside police confirmed that eight officers suffered serious injuries including fractures, lacerations, a suspected broken nose and a concussion.
• Police believe those involved in the violent unrest included supporters of the English Defence League (EDL).

Are you saying you know more than all the above sources @User8646382 ? If so, please do link to your source.

Merseyside Police

https://www.merseyside.police.uk/news/merseyside/news/2024/july/man-arrested-after-incident-in-southport/

Surely nobody is suggesting that this made the EDL attacking a mosque, nearby buildings and the police?

Far right accounts on Twitter are.

Off-topic for the thread. We are talking about a British-born suspect.

How come so many EDL "just happened" to be around to attack the mosque?

These far-right rent-a-mob types travel into areas to cause trouble. They were already deliberately there and looking for a fight. The machete guy didn't "cause" the attack on the mosque.