Do you judge/ pity converts to Islam?

[Candyapplesandhearts]

Firstly I’m a convert to Islam. White European, so more than likely if you saw me you’d assume I was a convert, plus my name would definitely give the game away.

i live in a metropolitan area where converts are yes rare but not too too share whereby it’s shocking.

well keeping this in mind, I bought a block of sessions for a beauty treatment, and the aesthetician was visibly taken back by me firstly, fine it happens because I wasn’t what she was expecting, with my name and I show up in a headscarf.

but the questions, not only were they pretty inappropriate but also steeped in judgment. I was shocked. I could tell that she wasn’t necessarily being malicious or even hateful, but she clearly had a very pre conceived notion about my motivations and my choices. Ie several questions about my husband and how he made me convert, or as she said ‘become Islamic’, lots on clothing and how she often feels sorry for a lot of Muslim women.

truthfully MN, is this a thing? Deep down are these thoughts people have but maybe don’t voice.

in general even at work I do have questions asked but they are more diplomatically phrased- so now I’m wondering am I actually being judged/ pitied?

wow. Just wow.

you knew Muslims one time and made a judgement about the whole religion based on them. That seems smart, well done.

and then the amount in jail, well there’s several intersecting factors here; institutionalised racism as the majority of Muslims here are from bame backgrounds, and we know people from bame backgrounds are disproportionately incarcerated. Lack to opportunity’s, lack of role models, not to paint with too much of a broad brush but being in lower socio economic households, perhaps children of 1st gen immigrants who speak no English.

(obviously not all Muslims are lower socioeconomic status or are first gen and can’t speak English)

What's so offensive? Islam does give women lesser status then men - most religions do to be honest, with male priesthood etc, but in Islamic societies the misogyny seems to be embedded in so many areas of life and the legal structures.

I'm Irish, and a misogynistic conservative Catholic church controlled women's fertility for decades, with rrstrictions on contraceptives outside of marriage, a total ban on abortion and grim mother and baby homes for fallen women.

I don't think it's racist of anyone to point out how badly women were treated in Ireland, if we don't accept that there are problems we will never challenge them.

I suggest you give this a lesson to understand exactly what I'm talking about:
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/tom-holland-how-religion-shaped-politics-and-the/id1665265193?i=1000639347495

I'm an agnostic so have no skin in the game and generally I am very suspicious of organised religion but it would be a terrible mistake to assume that all religions are fundamentally the same and can coexist in harmony in a tolerant country with the same level of ease.

I would say that yes, mumsnet is very white and middle class so please remember not everyone is like that.
I have a friend who’s a Muslim convert btw. She’s actually so much happier since, it’s really interesting :) she has a lovely husband and children and feels like she meaning in her life. It works for her. I don’t get it but I also do.
Be yourself and find those right people to mix with and respect you for who you are.

When I compare my Muslim colleague (who is happily married - legally and also via nikkah) and some of the mumsnetters here who live for years with a low earning man (cos marriage is outdated)and quit their job to be stay at home mum with 2 kids (childcare too expensive) before realising their partner has drained the joint account to pay for a lap dancer on a stag do. They break up, husband doesn't pay child support, leads life normally cos 'divorce is normal'. Mumsnetter has to get a job and be a single mum.. tbh even if they were married, there aren't many assets to divvy up.

We are told we can do anything we want but in practice, the current system we have works best for white middle class women who are able to pay for their kids themselves without a man and a community. Poor women would never get to that stage. So in a sense they are not much better off than being born in a moderate Muslim family where they would be guided to marry a decent man with prospects and who would face intense family pressure to remain a family unit with his wife and children. The clubbing era from age 18 to 30 doesn't last very long tbh, at that time the world is your oyster but in the long run if you have kids and a loser husband (cos it's someone you chose on a dating app), life isn't going to be pretty.

In secular society they tell you marry or cohabitate for love and everything would work out..everything works out for middle class white women with inheritance or independent career who marries someone from the same class.

I was really really hoping it would be the other way, a few judgemental people and the most live and let live especially given the amount of ‘feminists’ on here. Clearly white feminism

Those of you with a dim view of Islam- where do you get your facts from about the faith? If it’s the media, then you don’t know anything at all.

This is my position too.

Wouldn't you refer to yourself as a "Revert"?
I understand thats how people not born into Islam but who then decide to later are known.

It literally isn’t. I know nobody who would go voluntarily. There is a reason it’s seen as a cheap destination holiday.

Absolutely disgusted at the Islamophobia on this thread, mumsnet need to remove it.

Couldnt agree more. Give me any Spanish or Greek resort but never Turkey.

Nothing unhinged about it, she's telling the truth!

Not at all. I’d be really interested, because I think it’s a big decision, and obviously a bit controversial, so I’d be interested in why you felt so strongly to do it. It’s obviously different to someone growing up in a religion and just continuing. I would be interested in how you reconciled some of the inconsistencies in the religion, and had faith. But I’d be interested in that with a Christian woman too. I would admittedly be interested to know how you reconciled feminism with your religion, Again I’d wonder that about any woman who is practicing any religion though. and actually I think many religions are quite feminist, they’ve just been interpreted and become culturally misogynistic. I’d also be interested in things like what it meant for you day to day and what your family thought, but that again would be the same for anyone converting to a religion that required you to actually ‘do’ something. (I don’t think Christianity counts, or at least not how I’ve seen it practiced, but I mean religions that require you to change your diet for example). I would never mention it or ask you any questions though unless we were friends and it came up, then I’d love to talk about it, but no judgement at all. Sorry you’ve had some rude responses.

@Candyapplesandhearts as long as you are happy that’s all that matters. I think there is a lot of ignorance around certain faiths, in particular Islam, and while not religious myself I have taken time to educate myself as best I can. (I work with people across a lot of different faiths - not colleagues but clients if you will) I also think there is a lot of media misrepresentation of Islam.

I think people need to understand individual circumstances and experiences before they can comment, and also appreciate these experiences differ wildly within the same religion, whatever the religion in question may be.

I have very mixed feelings about religion in general. I come from a practicing Catholic family and have a practicing Muslim exH and just don’t get how they can believe in it all. That said it’s their choice to do so and as long as they don’t try to make anyone else go along with it, I think we should all live and let live. I have relatives I haven’t really seen for 20 years because of their reaction to exH and still miss the relationship I thought we had.

I wouldn’t pity anyone who converted to another religion simply because I know lots of Muslims, Catholics and Catholic converts and their religions seem to bring them happiness, although they obviously still have life problems the same as everyone else!

Sometimes it's not that you do it for a man my Dh is jewish but an atheist. I converted to Judaism. I guess I wanted to be the same religion as him as Jewish atheism still a thing, he can't really stop identifying as Jewish as people still label him as such.

I can imagine converting to Islam if I married a Muslim man if I got fascinated by the religion and then I could take my kids to mosque too. I would want to find a more liberal steam and wouldn't wear hijab.

I wouldn't judge you for choosing Islam. I do wonder though about why individuals feel the need to convert to another faith - regardless of the religion.

I find the word revert very disrespectful to other religions.

In my experience, converts tend to be more fervent than those born into a religion so I would probably be a bit afraid of you and assume you had quite specific beliefs about certain things/groups but I wouldn't say anything and wouldn't be particularly curious either.

@MidnightMusing5 I got my view from my Muslim upbringing. I found it stifling in terms of gender expectations

This. I've had really gossipy nail techs who would comment about anything and everything about anyone. Don't read too much into it or let it affect you. Ultimately if she has rubbish customer service she will lose customers.

In all honesty, if I see a woman who has converted I assume that it’s due to a man.

I hope this thread isn’t deleted, I think it’s important that everyone is allowed to say what they think about religions, and any other beliefs. It’s when you can’t criticise religion that it becomes a problem.

Pretty much this.

I met some recent white converts to Christianity and they were previously atheist.

Nothing about their lives had changed other than now attending church.

I've read relevant bits of the Qu'ran. I also observe how the religion plays out in practice.