Do you judge/ pity converts to Islam?

[Candyapplesandhearts]

Firstly I’m a convert to Islam. White European, so more than likely if you saw me you’d assume I was a convert, plus my name would definitely give the game away.

i live in a metropolitan area where converts are yes rare but not too too share whereby it’s shocking.

well keeping this in mind, I bought a block of sessions for a beauty treatment, and the aesthetician was visibly taken back by me firstly, fine it happens because I wasn’t what she was expecting, with my name and I show up in a headscarf.

but the questions, not only were they pretty inappropriate but also steeped in judgment. I was shocked. I could tell that she wasn’t necessarily being malicious or even hateful, but she clearly had a very pre conceived notion about my motivations and my choices. Ie several questions about my husband and how he made me convert, or as she said ‘become Islamic’, lots on clothing and how she often feels sorry for a lot of Muslim women.

truthfully MN, is this a thing? Deep down are these thoughts people have but maybe don’t voice.

in general even at work I do have questions asked but they are more diplomatically phrased- so now I’m wondering am I actually being judged/ pitied?

I've already replied to similar comments.

I find in my local area there was a woman who couldn't speak English and couldn't converse with the GP receptionist. I thought this was disgraceful. Moreso when she told she receptionist to "shut up" in like Punjabi.

So men must cover their genitals and arse then? But women should cover their genitals, bums, breasts, legs and hair?

In my local area(not in the UK) there was an English bloke throwing stones at cygnets yesterday, like properly firing them at them trying to hit them while his English wife and English kids laughed. I thought it was disgraceful.

Do I take from this experience of one English family that all English people treat animals horrifically as some kind of game? Or do I accept that some people no matter their nationality are just arseholes?

This right here was my point. Thank you!

What point?
Fashion and trends aren't the same as religious rules.

Oh golly you are exhausting in what now I can only assume is your wilful misinterpreting of my point

vast majority of new immigrants to the UK come under the graduate visa scheme (where uk university graduates can work for 2 years after graduation), nhs worker scheme or care worker schemes. Even Farage said care workers are skilled workers cos he recognizes most british people don't want to do the job now so them not coming would mean lots of old people sitting in their own filth.

as a percentage asylum seekers are not a significant percentage.

Perhaps it's exhausting because you cannot actually explain the point you think you've made?

Ireland (and I'm sure UK is the same) needs unskilled immigrants, why would they let them in otherwise? There are border towns where a lot of the labouring jobs are taken up by eastern Europeans, and because they are working 12 hour shifts daily they have very little need to learn English as they work amongst themselves. They have no time to socialize with the 'natives', who don't want these jobs. You could pay them all you want to reproduce more but it wouldn't mean there was less need for immigrants. And what does 'natives' even mean anyway? There has been a mass call for nurses/doctors/carers (ie skilled workers) from India and the Philippines, who speak English fluently and the 'natives' still aren't happy. It's just pure xenophobia and racism.

It’s not only me who has made it, several other posters have echoed the same point.

i don’t believe that free choice exists at all, all our experiences are shaped by the various discourses around us.

BUT you cannot conflate a woman wearing a headscarf in the UK with a woman forced to in Iran. In Iran she is compelled to. Here or many other countries inc Muslim majority countries there’s no legal compulsion. It’s not a like for like comparison. My point is if a woman is saying she is choosing to wear it then you have to take that at face value, before trying to delve down and break apart the extent to which that choice was free from any influence. Because as I said above no choices are free from influence

Why is the woman 'choosing' to wear it? What is influencing that 'choice'? Are any of the reasons not related to her religion?
Of course we could argue that no choice is completely free, but that doesn't negate that some 'choices' aren't really choices at all.

I don't think you'll be satisfied with anyone's answers @Werweisswohin.

I'd be satisfied if someone could answer what I've asked directly above your comment. I'm not sure anyone can. I suspect that's because it's not actually a choice.

Do you think the localswon't do the jobs or are there other factors at play?

I choose to wear hijab because I believe that is something I must do as a Muslim to please God. I was convinced enough after reading verses of the Quran dealing with the matter. This is the number one reason I wear it. In addition to this, other reasons that lead on from this include it serving as a daily reminder to myself that I am Muslim and therefore have certain duties to carry out each day. It serves as a bit of a uniform I suppose, people know I am Muslim instantly, other Muslims will know I am Muslim. It is a reminder to me to do my best to serve God and stay on the straight path. These are my reasons for wearing it. I made a free choice to choose Islam, part of that (as per my interpretation ) is to cover.

Of course it's a choice. The Qur'an and hadiths talk about hijab and modesty, but it is not universal that hijab is interpreted to be "a cloth covering xyz". For some women it's a state of mind to act and behave modestly. For others it's some form of head covering. Others probably disregard it entirely while still following the 5 pillars of Islam. Others cover up for cultural reasons whilst doing nothing to follow the religion.

I don't understand why you think that women that decide to become Muslims do not have any choices at all. Those in the West are free to choose, which is why the UK is a brilliant place to live. Isn't it anti feminist to argue otherwise?

Thanks for the reply.
Just to make it clear that I have no desire whatsoever to take away your right to wear a head covering, I'm more interested in the concept of it being a choice or not.
I notice you initially say 'choose' but then go on to say 'must' (to 'please god') in reference to wearing your hijab.
Would it then be misinterpretation to then say that while you feel you definitely chose the religion of islam, once you are a practising muslim the head covering itself becomes more of a requirement than an choice? In other words you didn't have to choose islam but by choosing islam you effectively accept that you need a head covering?

So let’s talk about me,

i have chosen to.

my husband doesn’t really want me to, my family (white British) definitely don’t want me to, my life might be easier if I didn’t. But yet I still chose too.

why? I’d say identity politics. I don’t have a Muslim name, this, how I dress, is a huge part of my identity and how I want to show myself to the world.

does that constitute a choice for you?

Just to clarify, at no point did I even remotely suggest that muslim women 'do not have any choices at all'. That would be ridiculous.

Sure, to clarify. I chose Islam and as part of that I believe that I must wear hijab.

Sure, to clarify. I chose Islam and as part of that I believe that I must wear hijab.

Can you tell me more about where this comes from? I am interested in Hinduism but always thought it was theist. Mind you, it has so much in it, I am surprised I'm surprised IYSWIM.

I also thought you had to be born a Hindu.

But it's still ok for me to think the choice is a poor one,no? Just like I think the choice of the woman on "Ballerina Farm" is also a poor one ( Mormon mum with 8 children). Just like if my DD drops out of education tomorrow to have 8 children, I will think it is a poor choice. That's probably judgy. But I will be judging.

Why don't the men have to wear a head covering in the same way