Do you judge/ pity converts to Islam?

[Candyapplesandhearts]

Firstly I’m a convert to Islam. White European, so more than likely if you saw me you’d assume I was a convert, plus my name would definitely give the game away.

i live in a metropolitan area where converts are yes rare but not too too share whereby it’s shocking.

well keeping this in mind, I bought a block of sessions for a beauty treatment, and the aesthetician was visibly taken back by me firstly, fine it happens because I wasn’t what she was expecting, with my name and I show up in a headscarf.

but the questions, not only were they pretty inappropriate but also steeped in judgment. I was shocked. I could tell that she wasn’t necessarily being malicious or even hateful, but she clearly had a very pre conceived notion about my motivations and my choices. Ie several questions about my husband and how he made me convert, or as she said ‘become Islamic’, lots on clothing and how she often feels sorry for a lot of Muslim women.

truthfully MN, is this a thing? Deep down are these thoughts people have but maybe don’t voice.

in general even at work I do have questions asked but they are more diplomatically phrased- so now I’m wondering am I actually being judged/ pitied?

@Werweisswohin From what I have read it doesn't appear not everyone knows why and seem to link it to oppression and therefore not a free choice.

Wearing a hijab is a choice, a personal choice. Many Muslim women do not wear it but there are those who do.

in a sense its not about religion, its about people having tunnel vision and that ailment is not about whether you pray or not. Its about empathy and your ability to engage in dialogue.

That's about it I think.

It's interesting. I didn't think the Hijab was mandatory, I thought it was a choice but your link says:

Yes, hijab requirements are mandatory for practicing Muslims.

Shabbos dinner?

This is the growth model of the the developed country. Most rich countries are Western countries. Low birth rates and service economies powered by finance and tech and other knowledge intensive industries (they want to attract global talent). Low desire by local population to work in undesirable low wage positions with long hours due to higher expectations/welfare states.

Tbh we have been importing workers since the 1950s hence windrush. Also the higher education sector is our second largest sector, i came over as an international student and honestly i was wined and dined by Bristol and Warwick university (there was a free meal at one of our top hotels in my home country for all offer holders; i went for the free food but picked another university where I met my DH and stayed on). I graduated without student loan and my parents paid international school fees to subsidise local university students.

my friend who worked for the job centre in Barrow in Furness said that for some benefit claimants from ex mining villages, it was an unwritten rule that they would not push the locals there to find a job cos there was zero point, this has been the policy for the last 4 governments.

Mobility of talent across borders and also to top up local labour shortages.

Even countries like Japan are opening up to foreign workers. Singapore and HK have been destinations for expats for years.

If we want to live together successfully, we have to accept each other.

The words Friday night dinner can mean different things in a different context. Religions don't own words.

It really isn't a choice.

Most religions have a long list of things that they say are mandatory for people who practise. But it's up to an individual to decide if that works for them, to what extent they want to adopt 'gold standard' practice, what schools of study fit with their own views and life. Many people identify as Christian but rarely if ever go to church. Some people identify as Muslim without praying regularly, etc.

I was talking in the Jewish context which was what the discussion was about. I'm sure we're all aware that most people regardless of religion eat dinner on a Friday evening 🙄

@Opalfleur2026

If we want to live together successfully, we have to accept each other.

That's simply not realistic. In Somalia for example, nearly 100% of girls have their genitals mutilated. In South Africa, rape is commonplace, in Egypt mass groping and sexual harassment of girls and women is a daily occurrence, other countries have child marriage or domestic abuse is shrugged off as part of life, some cultures accept rape in marriage, others have gender apartheid, others don't believe in education for girls, others have honour based violence and so it goes on.

Many people come to places like the UK to actually escape their culture. It's therefore important to press upon people to integrate and accept British cultural values so we can all get along.

Totally agree. This has been a problem

Acceptance also has limits. FGM and forced marriage obviously off limits as well as rape.

Hijab and providing halal food different kettle of fish. People celebrating their festivals whether its diwali, Chinese new year, eid etc

Again, religions don't own words.

Nobody is stopping anyone wearing religious clothing or eating special foods though, in the UK at least.

That's absolutely hilarious that you are trying to imply that Judaism has somehow tried to hijack the words "Friday" "night" and "dinner". Nice try.

It's hilarious that you find relevant points hilarious but hey ho.

@cupcaske123

I agree with what @Scirocco said
"Most religions have a long list of things that they say are mandatory for people who practise. But it's up to an individual to decide if that works for them, to what extent they want to adopt 'gold standard' practice, what schools of study fit with their own views and life. Many people identify as Christian but rarely if ever go to church. Some people identify as Muslim without praying regularly, etc."

@Werweisswohin "It really isn't a choice."

For practicing Muslims, meaning if one chooses to follow Islam to the T, then it is mandatory to wear a hijab. Although some may not be completely religious, they will choose not to wear one.

It's still not a free choice.

@Werweisswohin what is the point in asking a question to have it answered and then you keep saying it's not a free choice. That's your opinion, it is not a fact.

In an ideal world, that would of course be the case. However I'd love to see you argue that point in Iran where women are being killed for protesting against the Hijab.

A less extreme case in point is my Muslim friend who doesn't wear the Hijab and the comments she gets as she walks around.

It's not just Muslims this applies to of course, the gossip outside church used to be bad especially towards those who didn't uphold so called Christian values eg got divorced.

No answers have been given which show it being an actual free choice.

Sure. Prejudice, hatred directed against Muslims and/or Islam.

MNHQ would quite rightly have shut this thread down if some of the comments on this thread about Muslims had been made about other religious groups.

It’s fine to say you do not understand the OP’s decision. It’s fine to say you think Islam oppresses women. It’s not ok to denigrate the faith of millions of people and go beyond those opinions by basically depicting Islam as evil and all Muslim men as vicious misogynists.

I am not religious but grew up in an area with a mix of many religions including one of the largest Orthodox Jewish communities in Europe. I disagree with most aspects of Islam, Judaism and Christianity but I was raised to respect other people and wouldn’t dream of scolding or lecturing women who follow those religions. The judgemental and insulting comments directed towards the OP are shameful. We live in a country where hundreds of women lose their lives to violent male partners every year, are underpaid and see their careers go to shit once they have children because they are so undervalued and where we are basically treated like second class citizens on a daily basis. And yet so many sneer and look down on the OP for converting to a religion that ‘treats women terribly’. Couldn’t make it up.

What is a totally free choice though? I am a non religious woman living in the UK in 2024....my clothing choices reflect the culture and times I exist in. If I lived in a tribal community in Papua new Guinea or in the Victorian era in the UK, id dress very differently. So are my clothing choices entirely made of my own free will....? Well yes but within the parameters of what makes me fit in within the society I live in...so it's not totally without influence