Do you judge/ pity converts to Islam?

[Candyapplesandhearts]

Firstly I’m a convert to Islam. White European, so more than likely if you saw me you’d assume I was a convert, plus my name would definitely give the game away.

i live in a metropolitan area where converts are yes rare but not too too share whereby it’s shocking.

well keeping this in mind, I bought a block of sessions for a beauty treatment, and the aesthetician was visibly taken back by me firstly, fine it happens because I wasn’t what she was expecting, with my name and I show up in a headscarf.

but the questions, not only were they pretty inappropriate but also steeped in judgment. I was shocked. I could tell that she wasn’t necessarily being malicious or even hateful, but she clearly had a very pre conceived notion about my motivations and my choices. Ie several questions about my husband and how he made me convert, or as she said ‘become Islamic’, lots on clothing and how she often feels sorry for a lot of Muslim women.

truthfully MN, is this a thing? Deep down are these thoughts people have but maybe don’t voice.

in general even at work I do have questions asked but they are more diplomatically phrased- so now I’m wondering am I actually being judged/ pitied?

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/three-five-favour-britain-remaining-monarchy-although-support-falls-2012-peak-more-become-0

Support has fallen but if the British public was given a choice would be landslide victory for a monarchy.

I don't like the monarchy either but I know that most people would support it at 60 over percent voting for it to remain the same..

Same for religion really, most people are not religious but uk specifically isn't france. We are not a 100% secular society, we have a state religion and a monarch and that will remain the same.

The reality is that while the sexual revolution and lgbt rights mean many traditional religions don't appeal as much to people,people still have religious instincts and want to be part of a larger social group. Atheism hasn't provided us with a replacement social structure.

Except I did 4 times but still you keep repeating yourself, why not just ask me a direct question on my views about certain things rather than trying to infer them

The way I think about voluntary hijab wearing is the woman genuinely believes wearing the hijab genuinely brings her closer to god and also if she doesn't wear it she genuinely believes god will punish her in the afterlife

but even if she believes she’d get a punishment or more likely she believes Allah wants her to wear it, she’s still choosing. You may not like or agree with her motivation but it’s still a choice. There’s no such thing as a free choice

They were valid points in relation to potentially 'judging' islam, and the majority of other religions too.
I'm sorry if that makes people feel uncomfortable.

That's an interesting perspective and somewhat alarming. Didn't you have a free choice when you converted? Has someone coerced you into it?

No, you said the same thing 4 times - it wasn't an explanation any of the times you said it. Perhaps some self reflection required - we all need to do that at times.

I imagine they think it's voluntary, the question is would they still do it if a man and/or a supposed holy book written by men didn't tell them to would they do it all the time? I understand that in some climates there are practical benefits to headwear, so some folk might do it for that reason.

I noticed that (concerning) last line too.

It was just pages and pages of arguments between two or three people who all just wanted to win. Nothing uncomfortable, just made me want to scroll past it all to be honest.

That's an interesting perspective and somewhat alarming. Didn't you have a free choice when you converted? Has someone coerced you into it?

That's a line often used (rightly) on the feminist board (often in relation to makeup, shaving, heels etc) . Are you alarmed then too?

Wildly patronising and gaslighting

I'd be alarmed if someone felt they had no choice but to wear heels. In fact I was very concerned about uniform policies for some jobs which stated heels or make up needed to be worn for the job. Thankfully in the UK at least, that's changed. Suggesting there's no such thing as a free choice is very alarming - I choose what I wear, what I eat, my hobbies, where I travel, who I'm friends with etc No one is forcing me to do those things. I'm wondering how come the OP doesn't feel they have free choice.

Yes I chose for myself with no outside pressure

but my comment on free choice is that we are all informed and arguably guided in certain ways by things in our history, upbringing and environment. Let’s use a very generic example of illustrate my point.

christmas. Most non observant or merely cultural Christians or even atheists celebrate Christmas and they do it on 25th December and they put up a tree and eat a turkey and have gifts and maybe watch the kings speech. If they were living on a dessert island they wouldn’t have chosen to do that, they are doing so due to their cultural inheritance but if they were born in an orthodox country that wouldn’t be the case. The reason for those traditions is that someone else chose them. That’s what I mean by free choice. It’s a philosophical argument that I don’t have time for now or the skills frankly, but it makes sense to me.

i saw on another Islam post someone referenced meryl Streep monologue about a pile a stuff from devil wears Prada… I thought that was quite astute

Neither of those things.

@cupcaske123 , again , to quote the feminist board(which I agree with) "choices are not made in a vacuum". Hence the no free choice.

It's perfectly acceptable to opt out of Christmas - many people opt out in part or completely.
How acceptable is it for muslim women not not wear some sort of head covering?
I'm really not sure christmas and veil wearing are a great comparison regarding choice.

Surely we also accept that there is more freedom in some choices though?

It's not about 'winning', it's about not hiding from the reality of the situation - for me at least.
Scroll by if you need to, that's ok.

I think it's a ridiculous argument. Yes some things we do are cultural such as shaving but no one is holding a gun to your head and there are plenty including myself, who don't shave. I think the argument is more likely to be societal pressure which feels as though you have to confirm to certain practices but in reality you have a choice. Having no choice is being arrested by the police for not wearing a head covering.

I don't think they would. Like they wear it cos in the Quran it says you have to wear it or they'll be punishments in the hereafter.

I'm really glad to hear that you chose it for yourself.

Yes Christmas and its trappings are something you grow up with, it's a cultural practice and we often don't even realise we're taking part in them because they're ingrained, but there is still freedom to do it.

Another interesting point.
If you buy into the idea that muslim women in this country can have as good a life as the next person (or better), and do have a degree of choice in their lives, does it not bother you how controlled and oppressed women who follow the exact same faith/religion in other countries are? They're following the same holy book and rules.

My issue is that OP is getting attacked and challenged for pretty mainstream views and comments that wouldn't raise an eyebrow otherwise and are repeated ad hominem on various boards on here. They're alarming, concerning, offensive etc because she's Muslim. That's bias.

Where is she 'getting attacked'?