Do you judge/ pity converts to Islam?

[Candyapplesandhearts]

Firstly I’m a convert to Islam. White European, so more than likely if you saw me you’d assume I was a convert, plus my name would definitely give the game away.

i live in a metropolitan area where converts are yes rare but not too too share whereby it’s shocking.

well keeping this in mind, I bought a block of sessions for a beauty treatment, and the aesthetician was visibly taken back by me firstly, fine it happens because I wasn’t what she was expecting, with my name and I show up in a headscarf.

but the questions, not only were they pretty inappropriate but also steeped in judgment. I was shocked. I could tell that she wasn’t necessarily being malicious or even hateful, but she clearly had a very pre conceived notion about my motivations and my choices. Ie several questions about my husband and how he made me convert, or as she said ‘become Islamic’, lots on clothing and how she often feels sorry for a lot of Muslim women.

truthfully MN, is this a thing? Deep down are these thoughts people have but maybe don’t voice.

in general even at work I do have questions asked but they are more diplomatically phrased- so now I’m wondering am I actually being judged/ pitied?

I would say this is very exceptional, not that it doesn't happen, but it certainly isn't the MO of Islam.

Religion fills a hole in many people's lives, I'm not debating that. Enslavement in religion shouldn't be the only way to feel supported though. 😔

So it's routine people need, not religion?

I'm surprised to hear that given the prevelence of online radicalisation and hate preachers. Those attacking people in the street or driving cars into crowds seem to be vulnerable and have mental health issues. It also seems to appeal to vulnerable teenagers.

The mosque I mostly attend is an old church. It wasn't used for many years and had been sold several times before it was bought as a mosque. Anyway, most of the neighbours are old people and they say they love to see the people gathering, but in particular the children playing in the garden (summer schemes and weekend school etc) as it reminds them of 'the old days' when people socialized more and looked out for each other. The sense of community has really declined.

Remember that this handful of people that you hear about are a few people out of approx 4 million (UK). The Daily Mail never reports about Muslims being active in the community, the positive things they bring, how they contribute etc. So there's a very skewed perception (and I believe this is purposeful) of Muslims being illegal immigrants, radicals and on benefits. The hate preachers are few and far between, but again due to the media it makes it seem as these are the dominant figures. The teens/young people that are radicalized (and I use that term loosely, as the PREVENT guidelines deem many mainstream Muslims as 'radicals') you often find are from lower socio economic groups, they feel very marginalized, discriminated against, and they are angry anyway. There is a lot of anti Muslim rhetoric and practice, particularly in areas where there are high concentrations of Muslims in the UK, so these young people feel very targeted and in a lose-lose situation anyway.

No, it's not exceptional.
Again, those who are groomed may not realise they have been groomed.

People can gather and chiödren can play without organised indoctrination.

There are billions of Muslims, I'm not saying they're all radicalised. However alongside the individuals who have been radicalised there are whole armies such as Isis, the Taliban, Boko Haram and Al Qaeda amongst others. Whole countries such as Afghanistan are run by extremists and many Islamic countries seem to be authoritarian and terrorise women.

But they often don't.. must say that in the 10 years of living in the uk (other than my synagogue) and also political activist meet ups (which not everyone is into), the only place where people were most friendly and very eager to make friends was a cruise. To put it in an awful way, they knew we were their 'kind of people' , in fact this guy told me- well now that Labour has gotten in, they are just going to tax the hell out of 'people like us'. The uk class system means there would be people who don't want to mix with you and who would choose activities that are paid for so they don't need to mix with the riff raff. This can be punishing for poorer people and people from ethnic minorities and religion can mean people mix more freely across economic lines..this is true in my synagogue, millionaires often mix with benefits claimants..

This is why most of my friends are Jewish and most of my DH's friends are also Jewish (even though he is an atheist). Aside from my political friends.

I think you'd need stats to back that up? Certainly in my experience those who are groomed are...non existent? How would you define grooming?

Of course they can, I didn't say otherwise. My point was that elderly people are complaining there's a lack of social cohesion, a lack of sense of belonging like they felt in the past. This possibly makes people search for something else, and often they find it in religion.

@Werweisswohin groomed by who exactly and how?

Unfortunately we have to distinguish between Islamic and Muslim. Someone who is a Muslim can make up their own laws/regulations and everyone attributes it to Islam. I know that 'Islamic' laws in Afghanistan are not islamic at all, and I just looked up Boko Haram, who apparently kidnap girls so they can be used to cook....Whilst these are supposedly 'Muslim' groups they all have in common that they are men hungry for power. These are not Islamic notions at all, as prescribed by Quran or sunnah.

I was commenting on your post about converting people being rare and gave you some examples of individual radicalisation and mass radicalisation. I'm not suggesting that all Muslims are extremists.

ETA Boko Haram do a lot more than just kidnap girls to cook.

It also appeals to academics and highly qualified and successful individuals

Back up this claim please, provide facts that mainstream Islam is grooming individuals

@convertrevert

Christianity also supports this

Supports what?

I think the responses here are not surprising but quite depressing.

I'm not expert in Islam but my understanding is that it is very similar to Christianity: be good and upstanding, treat others with respect, be humble, modest and fair and love God. These are universal values of human kind.

Islam has been used as a political weapon by various states (similar to Christianity) and the objections we see as Westerners I suspect are about about the political and historic contexts. Islam for centuries merged with local cultures, but the more recent "arabisation" of Islam is probably what people object to more. Like "more devoutness" = "be more Saudi".

My friend once told me that there are many routes to the top of the mountain, but the view at the top is the same..Good luck in your spiritual journey.

In relation to mental health and many other things

Religion is not needed for people to socialise.

If you think those who have been groomed into religion are 'non-existent' then I'd question if you really understand much about grooming, or indeed indoctrination.

All religions groom and indoctrinate. 🫣

Pretty sure Druidry doesn't.