Do you judge/ pity converts to Islam?

[Candyapplesandhearts]

Firstly I’m a convert to Islam. White European, so more than likely if you saw me you’d assume I was a convert, plus my name would definitely give the game away.

i live in a metropolitan area where converts are yes rare but not too too share whereby it’s shocking.

well keeping this in mind, I bought a block of sessions for a beauty treatment, and the aesthetician was visibly taken back by me firstly, fine it happens because I wasn’t what she was expecting, with my name and I show up in a headscarf.

but the questions, not only were they pretty inappropriate but also steeped in judgment. I was shocked. I could tell that she wasn’t necessarily being malicious or even hateful, but she clearly had a very pre conceived notion about my motivations and my choices. Ie several questions about my husband and how he made me convert, or as she said ‘become Islamic’, lots on clothing and how she often feels sorry for a lot of Muslim women.

truthfully MN, is this a thing? Deep down are these thoughts people have but maybe don’t voice.

in general even at work I do have questions asked but they are more diplomatically phrased- so now I’m wondering am I actually being judged/ pitied?

Well said. And it's worth noting that plenty of Muslim feminists are extremely critical of Islam. Are they 'Islamophobic' as well?

There is no criticism of why women feel the pressure to do this in western societies.

Er, yeah there is! Are you new to MN? You only need to pop on to AIBU to see threads criticising people who have botox/lip fillers/plastic surgery etc.

Life is full of curve balls. That is all I have to say!

This is exactly what I mean. I sometimes think the same. Pressure obviously exists for young women to dress like this nowadays, and I’m not so sure that is a good thing really.

”Er” did you read my follow up message. Which I have posted twice now.

I'd say I'm much more judging of lip fillers etc than I would be of a white woman who becomes a muslim.

Yes, what "certain people" are you talking about?

Actually if you are a feminist you should see feminists joining a socially conservative religion as a way to shake it up. The men they marry would probably be more progressive muslims and they would raise their sons accordingly.

If there are enough of them maybe one or two of them would become female imams, get funding for their own mosque and start a new movement. Lots of moderate Muslims who don't quite feel at home at 'dad's mosque' join.

Then this could change british Muslim life.

Or feel the need to display themselves in an overtly sexual manner the way some women do these days.

Perhaps you should stop judging them then?

The people accusing us of Islamaphobia and simultaneously trying to be the thought police and assuming we're all white have me quite confused. Showing your true, intolerant colours there.

Why didn't she work and have her own money?

I agree with the response here. I really don't like any organised religion, imo they were all invented by men, for men and to keep women 'in their place' - submissive to men.

I don’t judge women who cover up anymore than I would judge these women. That is the point I am trying to make. Sorry if that offends you in some way .

No they aren’t, Muslim feminists aren’t critical of Islam, they are critical of patriarchal and misogynistic interpretations of it

The type of people who judge these women yet don’t judge women who conform to certain western ideals. Gosh people on this thread are so angry!! I’m just making a point.

Do you assume everyone who disagrees with you is somehow ‘offended’? That must get exhausting for you on a discussion forum.

You were very much judging women in the post I quoted.

Display themselves indeed.

Judgemental language for sure. At least own your scorn for the way they choose to dress.

Oh so anything you don’t agree with personally is stupid - ok got it!

Religion wouldn't go away. Shouldn't you celebrate progressive people joining organized religion as religions are product of their followers and this would mean there would be some middle ground.

Religious (the intense orthodox type) people tend to have more children. Secular have few or none. You might have a situation like in Israel where the very religious hardiners have 8 children and the secular only have 2. They end up influencing government policy disproportionately, there isn't really a middle ground in Israel as there is in the diaspora, people are either orthodox or irreligious as the orthodox believe they are the true guardians of the faith and even prevent reform synagogues from being built. To a lesser extent in the usa too, evangelicals have lots and lots of children though at least in the usa the drop out rate seems quite high. However I do expect if trump becomes president abortion would be banned, lots of women losing their reproductive rights over night!

We don't have this dynamic in uk ironically cos we have a state religion, church of England which leans moderate.

Fellow revert here @Candyapplesandhearts . A lot of people dislike or judge Islam, and indeed many faiths, for various reasons, and in most cases there's little that will be achieved by getting too concerned about what others think.

"To you be your Way, and to me mine."

Do what feels right to you, show people what Islam means to you through being an example of an independent Muslim woman who is comfortable with her faith and identity, and don't worry too much about what other people may or may not think, because ultimately, everyone is on their own journey to find where they belong and everyone needs to take whatever path works for them.

There's a Muslim Mumsnetters board - feel welcome to chat there for support too, including from fellow reverts.

White feminism, is a term for a specific type of feminism that basically isn’t intersectional and sees things and interprets things through a Eurocentric lens. When I’m using that term, it’s not saying you yourself are white

So in summer /nice weather, a man can feel the breeze in his hair, on his arms, sun on neck and it's fine that he can wear any colour but not red? And a woman needs to cover up?. How is that fair and equal? Why can men be more comfortable? If you have a look on MN for long enough, you will find plenty of women find a man's forearms incredibly attractive. Yet they don't need to be that modest? I know this is just one part of a dress code, but come on. There's no equity even in being comfortable in summer?

Yet you judge women who conform to western ideals and don't judge women who convert to religions. How is it any different? Also, I'm not angry just because I disagree with you.

Is there?! I never knew this!

but absolutely

‘Lakum deenekum wali ya deen’

@WhateverMate I don’t judge women who chose to display themselves but I do judge society for putting pressure on women to do so. In recent years I’ve certainly felt the pressure myself with lots of women my age getting aesthetic procedures which I have considered myself. I suppose the point I am trying to make is that I can see the appeal of covering up/dressing modestly. I don’t really see how it is any worse. People seem extremely offended by the notion of this for some reason judging by these comments.

you’re assuming modest clothes are stifling. A lose cotton abaya is heavenly. Who is saying Abdullah is more comfortable the Khadija? (Names arbitrarily given for context)

men do need to be modest, there are just different interpretations of what modesty is to men and women