I am going to be the companion from hell on this holiday

[Plasticfoot]

Stop me!

I'm a fairly experienced mountain walker, something I did a lot with DH until he died. I haven't been since.

This summer, a group of my fittest friends have decided to climb a big one. They're fit, it's well within their capabilities, but I don't think they realise quite how hard it will be and they don't know mountains.

I'm really struggling to convince them about the kit they'll need, or the planning the route needs, the fact that the weather (visibility) matters or that navigation isnt just a matter of following the path. Some are even talking about taking beer up with them.

I've done this mountain a couple of times before, a tough challenge but straightforward in good weather. People die on it though and I've turned back when the weather turned, as it does in the mountains.

I can already feel I'm getting on people's nerves. I know I do worry, but there are reasons for that.

Currently I'm trying to tell them we can't fix a certain day for the climb, we'll need to look at the weather forecast closer to the time and be ready to go next day, if it looks OK, which seems normal to me and will make for a safer, more enjoyable trip. No one's getting it. I'm getting frustrated and they think I'm being bossy and overdramatic.

Ok so if it's just navigation in tricky weather say that and say if things get bad you'll be advising they turn back and you will too. Try to remember you're only responsible for your own actions, you can advise others, if they disagree with you you can't force them even if you personally think you're right and they're wrong. Try and enjoy the trip.

I’m sorry your friends aren’t taking on board your advice. It’s unfortunate they don’t accept your clearly sensible and experienced approach to this trip, I don’t understand why they would brush it all aside. Having no experience in this myself I would be welcoming all advice and listening/following carefully.

If you feel annoyed already I would consider backing out, you won’t enjoy it if you are being ignored especially when it could be dangerous.

@SeulementUneFois
"How can people die in the UK in the summer (in the mountains I mean)??"

Poeple die in the Lake District and Scotland quite frequently. People often under estimate these mountains because they are not high, but the weather in the UK is very changeable. People die from from hyperthermia. They get lost.
I was walking the West Highland Way (in Scotland), when I discovered my gortex waterproofs were NOT waterproof. (or not as waterproof as I had expected). It rained everyday. And this was NOT mountainous, but often over remote moorland.
There is NO cover.
There is often no mobile signal so no way of calling for help, etc.
Another time, walking in the Lake District, we had unexpected hot weather, but as anyone in the UK will tell you, you still have to carry all the wet weather gear, in case the weather dramatically changes.
In fact we were told, only go across the hills if you can see the top. If covered in cloud, then walk the long way round.
The weather is not only changeable, it is often very localised. It changes from hot to cold very quickly.

SeulementUneFois - it's the rain that kills people. Most people who are not from mountainous places in the UK have any kind of idea just how wet it can be. It can rain incessantly for days on end and in the mountains it can come out of pretty much nowhere with very little warning. Once your clothes are wet through it only needs a very light wind to have you losing heat rapidly.
I've treated people for hypothermia who were exposed at sea level in July.

I think it's just being clear to them that they not only risk themselves but then the potential for mountain rescue personnel too.

I've been up many a mountain and munro if they don't understand that conditions can change very quickly and to check a mountain forecast then they shouldn't be going full stop.

Don't enable their behaviour and as their navigator simply refuse if the mountain forecast is looking bad.

They should also learn some very basics about compass and map skills!
Navigation skills meant I didn't walk off the side of a ridge on Cadir Idris when the cloud descended (forecast had been good)

Also very invested in finding out what mountain it is..

Is it one of the Cuillins on the Isle of Skye?

We got stuck at the Faery pools (which is very busy in summer so probs not where you're going) as a walker slipped and broke her ankle.

She really couldn't move so mountain rescue had to come and get her. The helicopter was blocking the path so we just had to wait and watch for a bit.

My point is that this was a very warm, clear day in Summer. Becoming incapacitated is very easily done and if the weather changes, it gets dangerous very quickly.

I nearly slipped and fell down a deep chasm while I emergency wee'd behind a large bush but that's a whole other story....

I wouldn’t go either. I wouldn’t want the planning responsibilities for people who don’t listen or appreciate it. I’m sorry about your husband.

It doesn't have to be Everest to be dangerous in the wrong conditions. People all the time on Scottish hills and mountains, usually because they go without preparing properly, wear the wrong gear and don't have a back up plan.
Your comment makes you look a bit dim to be honest.

I am an experienced hiker and have been up several mountains in the Alps (the UK ones are somewhat elusive due to weather & time...)
I have also done hikes with more / less experienced people.

I think rule number one is of course safety first!
However I find more open ears if I raise issues on challanging training walks or when already at the destination. Especially if the weather is a bit iffy.
I'd keep quiet for now, but make sure that when you go up, notify someone about your rote, time frame and weather conditions. This may sound silly, especially for a group hike but could make all the difference.

I am not a hiker or mountain climber but I do live in Scotland and have a healthy respect for the mountains and our weather. Weather can change so, so quickly and the number of people who get pulled off a Munro every year because they've got lost, gone up wearing flip flops or without a jacket, no map, no torch....

It's not about being fit, or sporty, or doing ultra marathons or whatever. The fittest person on the planet is going to be fucked if they don't plan, get to the top of Ben Macdui just as the weather turns and they can't see 5 feet in front of their faces, have no waterproofs and no map.

I mean, you and your friends might be OK. But you could very easily not be OK and the consequences of that can be quite serious indeed.

Walk over hilly terrain to a lake/ sea for a swim, walk back??

I think if they're reasonably fit, have suitable footwear (haven't worn their boots in though? 🤔) - and, most crucially, have you with them with your map and compass/ GPS, there's not too much that could go awry. If the weather closes in you get to be the hero of the hour- especially if you also produce a packet of plasters for the inevitable blisters 😆

OP. It’s worth asking yourself why exactly you are so irritated.
Could a small part of it be not so much to do with the actual risks, but also that they they’re not doing it to your full approval /acknowledging your expertise?
I just ask because seasoned hillwalkers and mountaineers can sometimes get a bit territorial about mountains and while, yes, safety and respect for the outdoors is paramount, there can also sometimes be a little purism and ego mixed in.

I know a very inspiring lady who is a trained mountain leader who frequently finds herself walking with all types on social walks. She goes along with the throng and doesn’t try to lead or boss others about, but I can tell she is quietly alert to the surroundings and prepared for all eventualities.
In your shoes, assuming that your friends are not complete idiots and do have a modicum of common sense, I would follow her example, pipe down for now and let them get on with it sorting their own kit (and beer), meanwhile you prepare to take with you what you know to be the necessities. Have your own map and contingencies in place, and if you do need to make a call and break with the group consensus your voice is more likely to be respected if they aren’t annoyed with you for nagging.

If, on the other hand, their attitude goes beyond naivety and you genuinely think they are a real danger to themselves and others, then back out now.

No, I absolutely wouldn't be taking them up there.

So you feel you're 'taking them up' the mountain in question? Have they asked you to lead them up? Are you a paid guide that they won't listen to?

But if you've simply joined a holiday others had planned, I don't see why you are positioning yourself as the person in charge. I can see how that would annoy them.

And a packet of jelly babies!

I think given what you’ve said here, I’d be tempted to make my attendance provisional on them taking your advice. They’ve invited you BECAUSE of your experience with this. If they won’t listen to you during prep, they certainly won’t listen up the mountain when it’s critical. Who makes the final decision on if the group turns back in bad conditions? Would it split the group if some decided to ignore and carry on?

My more experienced DP did 3 peaks a few years ago self supported with 3 very experienced friends. They found a walker at 3am on Scafell who had foolishly decided to continue when the rest of his group turned back in the rain. He was cold, wet and disoriented. They had to escort him back down and give him food and a warm fleece. I’d be worried about that happening if they don’t respect your opinion.

I'm irritated because I'm genuinely scared. DH was more of a risk taker than me and that sometimes frightened me on a mountain, but he did a least understand the risks.

Possibly also because I'm worried about how I'll cope being back in the mountains for the first time without him.

Yes, they are properly fit, good marathon and ultra runners, used to being on their feet for long days, but we live somewhere very flat! The mountains are a long way from us and most people have never been.

Theres fit and there’s hill fit - being able to walk steadily uphill for an extended period of time over rough terrain, and knowing that it’s often just as hard coming back down again. I’d go and just be prepared to turn back relatively early in the walk when they find out their running shoes won’t quite cut it.

There was a series on Channel 4 earlier this year - Lake District Rescue:
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/lake-district-rescue

And if you want to scare the bejesus out of them, suggest they watch BBC's SOS:Extreme Rescues
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m001v278/sos-extreme-rescues

DH has done a lot of the Munros and some of his stories of near misses has my hair standing on end - and he’s a sensible, experienced, very well prepared hill walker.

@Plasticfoot is what is bothering you that if your friends are not listening to you now, then they may not listen to you in a critical situation eg you’re half way up, the weather is closing in, half of them haven’t brought the right kit and you’re advising that the group needs to turn back?

milveycrohn - I know the West Highland Way well. Your Gortex would have been fine, it's just very, very wet. There's only so much fabric can do when the sea is falling our of the sky onto you.

It's funny that folk are trying to guess the mountain, there are hundreds and hundreds of them in Scotland alone, she could be climbing anything from a Munro to the hill out the back of someone's croft.

OP, I wouldn't be going with them, they sound too arrogant to be safe and you'll just be worrying about them.

If they aren't listening to you now they won't listen to you in an emergency.. There's no way I'd go.

Sirzy · Today 11:46
I think if they won’t listen and learn from your sensible advice based on experience then I would be tempted to say to them “sorry I don’t feel right going when we aren’t planning for all outcomes” and back out of the trip.

@Plasticfoot To be honest, the first reply nailed it. Just pull out and what @Sirzy said is a good way to put it. If you go, YOU are not going to enjoy the trip because of the legitimate concerns you have and THEY are going to start hating you being there because they will feel you are being an unreasonable nag. No winners. Just leave them to it

I think if you are scared and do not have faith in your companions then the best thing to do would be to pull out of the trip.

I'm not much of a walker and I've done Scafell Pike, on my own, from Borrowdale, with nowt but a bottle of water, a couple of sandwiches, a waterproof and a map — which I didn't need because I just had to follow all the people ahead of me.

OP, for the sake of everyone concerned, drop out of the group. You won't enjoy it and they'll resent you. It's not worth it.

@Plasticfoot if they won't listen to you now, how are you all going to be able to agree up a mountain? It sounds pretty risky to me. Either they start to listen to you now, or you explain that you think their behaviour is unsafe and you are backing out of the trip.